pageok
pageok
pageok
Why Younger Jews Are More Likely to Vote for McCain than are Older Jews:

According to this story, the answer is that the two most Republican-leaning segments of the Jewish community, Orthodox Jews and "Russians," are younger on average than other Jews. And I would add that the effect is likely understated, because Haredi/ultra-Orthodox Jews are unlikely to be reachable by pollsters, and the more recent Russian immigrants have a language barrier.

Another interesting tidbit from the article is that 80% of young Jewish women voted for Kerry, compared to 60% of young Jewish men. Anecdotal evidence suggests that, moreover, while there are a significant number of young Jewish Republican men who are active in politics, (and for that matter, there are many male Jewish libertarian activists) almost all young Jewish women who are political activists are Democrats or otherwise on the left.

UPDATE:

"Professor Joshua Comenetz from The University of Florida says the Ultra-orthodox population doubles every 20 years, which he says may make the Jewish community not only more religiously observant but more politically conservative.

"Comenetz estimated the Ultra-orthodox population in 2000 was about 360,000, 7.2 per cent of the approximately 5 million Jews in the U.S.

"But in 2006, demographers now estimate the number had grown to 468,000 or 9.4 per cent."

That sounds like a high estimate to me, but I haven't seen any good demographic studies. But last time I was in the Haredi neighborhood of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, I was amazed at its vastness, compared to just twenty years ago.

n (mail):
which group is more likely to post the same story twice?
11.3.2008 10:19am
hawkins:

Another interesting tidbit from the article is that 80% of young Jewish women voted for Kerry, compared to 60% of young Jewish men.


I wonder how this compares to non-Jewish voters of the same age group.
11.3.2008 10:28am
Lawyer-Wearing-Yarmulka (www):
Based on my experience in law school almost every politically active Orthodox Jew in school supported Bush in 2004. Secular Jews who supported Bush were much harder to find.
11.3.2008 10:36am
Isaac (www):
Anecdotal information from a politically active Orthodox Jew:
I wasn't so politically active in 2004. I voted for Bush while holding my nose.
In this election, I am vocally supporting Obama. I don't know how many of the many Orthodox Jews I know are politically active, but my impression is that many of them support Obama, and many support McCain. If I had to guess, I'd say that more support McCain, but not by a large margin. This, of course, is partly dependent on my particular social circle.
11.3.2008 10:55am
jimf (mail):
In my experience...most reform jews will vote for Obama...most conservative or orthodox jews will vote for mccain

I say most...becuase I am reform, but will vote for mccain.
11.3.2008 10:56am
M (mail):
Unfortunately a lot of the Russian Jews are also very serious racists and wouldn't consider voting for a black candidate regardless of his or her party. Obviously this isn't so of all of them- many are actively anti-racist. But I've never heard as much out-and-out, open racism as I have, say, in the North East of Philadelphia or in the Brighton Beach area. It's largely a piece of the serious racism against blacks held by many Russians in general rather than a Jewish thing, it seems.
11.3.2008 10:59am
elenathehun (mail) (www):
Alas, I'm a minority by any measure - a Jewish non-orthodox conservative female! It's very lonely out here...
11.3.2008 11:01am
TOTWTYTR (mail) (www):
This more or less matches my observations, but with one big difference. My son is non observant and he support McCain. He's been conservative since his first real job when he was 14. As soon as he saw how much was taken out in taxes, he became an instant Republican.

My daughter, OTOH, is an Obama supporter. She can't say why, but she is.

Both are in their 20s, working, and living on their own.
11.3.2008 11:03am
Kelly (mail):

Another interesting tidbit from the article is that 80% of young Jewish women voted for Kerry, compared to 60% of young Jewish men.

I wonder how this compares to non-Jewish voters of the same age group.


There's a gender gap among all young voters, but it's not nearly as wide. In 2004, young women (under 30) went for Kerry 56-43. Young men went for Kerry 51-48. See here
11.3.2008 11:10am
DG:
Many of my friends are non-russian Jewish republicans or libertarians. Many will be voting for McCain. Others are staying home because of Palin. They share a very pro-business, anti-tax, libertarian viewpoint. Of course, they share many ostensibly liberal views about gays, drugs, etc.
11.3.2008 11:12am
Matt_T:
Of course, they share many ostensibly liberal views about gays, drugs, etc.

As opposed to ostensibly libertarian?
11.3.2008 11:15am
Dan_H (mail):
Not mentioned in this is the Sephardic community of which there are many (lebanese, syrian, persian, etc). Most of those I know support Republicans.
11.3.2008 11:30am
Mickey:
"NEVER AGAIN" IS WHY! Some of us know our history and Obama is looking like the new Hitler. I'm looking at his ties to people that HATE and WANT TO KILL US.

Then we have the "National Security Force":
I guess Obama can't count on the US Military to shoot citizens but the Nation of Islam and goon squad certainly will.

Obama's communist roots go back generations. He is a COMMUNIST and worse, unlike most dictators he would not side with the United States over the Arab countries which he told us in his own words!

The idea of having this "chosen one" coming from slave-trader roots that have not been mentioned. He is African-Arab NOT AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

Bill Ayer's said killing 25 million American's would not be a problem - we have ties to people that hate and want to kill you!

The Global Poverty bill will be sending something like $87 million to Kenya (Obama's true country of choice)It will allow the UN to tax us AND disarm this country. People don't have a clue, why not? This bill explains why Joe Binden was the VP pick.

The sub prime loan mess was brought to us by a combination of corrupt politicians and Fannie Mae. Looking at the cast of criminals, there are real ties to the Black Caucus, ACORN... I would like to know how much of the $700 billion dollar bailout went to George Soros. We are seeing what I would call FINANCIAL TERRORISM and manipulation.

Energy - we still are not allowed to go after oil WHERE THE OIL IS. This is a deliberate mission to hurt this country when the manipulators cut off our supply. This is a homeland security issue. No Energy? We'll just sit in the dark and freeze!

Democrats already have a plan: The Government Seize All 401k Funds and "spread the wealth around"! Now they will have all your money and make everyone poor!

Taxes - I truly think every WORKING American will have huge tax increases. The goal of the elite is not to bring everyone up."Middle class tax break"? NOW YOU'RE RICH IF YOU MAKE over $120,000. Gee, it's half in a week. How long before it's down to $30K?

News Alert to people stupid enough to think they'll be getting anything "free": The aim is to have the elite (Pelosi, Obama, Kerry) with the power and the rest poor and dependent. Did you really think stealing from other people's money would work. You are the other people.

ETHNIC CLEANSING
youtube.com/watch?v=xmO4-gd8oAU >Democrat

youtube.com/watch?v=3tWLhwU5fYY >Barack Obama and Raila Odinga part 2 The Video that could cost Obama the election (ODINGA ADMITS THEY ARE COUSINS)

BTW, just like Obama, Cousin Odinga sold out Kenya to Shira law. Do you think there might be a reason the Nation of Islam, and American haters support Obama?

The "Golden Goose" was killed by the Democrats in a deliberate plan to hurt the economy for the sake of an election. You are allowing the country to be destroyed because you thought you would get other people's money and all you're getting is the loss of your freedom. I'm not shocked that you would sell out your country but I am shocked at how cheap you could be bought.

I'm voting against Obama because I have children.
11.3.2008 11:32am
Joe1616 (mail):
Why any Jew would vote for Obama is beyond me. Talk about selling out Israel. I can't think of a single issue on which Obama would be preferable to McCain from the perspective of a Jewish American. "My daughter, OTOH, is an Obama supporter. She can't say why, but she is." I think this perfectly sums up the position of almost all Jewish Democrats.
11.3.2008 11:35am
JosephSlater (mail):
Mikey:

Gosh, I was a moderate undecided voter, but now you have convinced me. Thanks!
11.3.2008 11:36am
Master of Obvious (mail):
As a member of the tribe, I think it is DNA related. These are the progeny of the people who witnessed the miracles of the Exodus from Egypt then built the golden calf. As a result, they faced 40 years of wandering in the desert. Modern Jewry will face 400 years of darkness for our stupid choices.
11.3.2008 11:38am
Yankev (mail):
jimf, I'm curious. Over the years, most of the Jews I have met who identified with Conservative Judaism have been politically very liberal. Most of the CJ's I know are supporting Obama, often quite vocally. Why do you think that many will vote for McCain?
11.3.2008 11:39am
Sagar:
Mickey,

You forgot to tell us what type of a jew you are :-)
11.3.2008 11:40am
Kelly (mail):
I'm impressed that a post on Obama and the Jewish vote made it a full dozen comments before Mickey threw out the Hitler reference.
11.3.2008 11:42am
Ben P:
........ and to think there's a meme that Obama supporters are somehow showing up in threads here and being extreme.
11.3.2008 11:43am
Yankev (mail):
M, many of the Jews I know who escaped the USSR and its satellites are terrified and disgusted by Obama -- not because he's black, but because they saw first hand the results of income distribution, monopolization of the press (which I will grant is the press's fault and not Obama's), the frequent re-writing of inconvenient history, and the use of the legal system to silence one's critics. They are also used to seeing through pretty words about sharing and collective destiny in order to spot the underlying lust for power and control. They don't trust Obama, and perhaps for good reason. They feel that Obama is the start of the very economic and political evils that they came here at great personal cost to escape.
11.3.2008 11:49am
Sagar:
Wasn't there a discussion here about Jews' voting preferences a little while ago?

The reason more young women vote Obama/Dem is likely for abortion rights (i have heard several say this is a "single" issue for them). I suspect the % may be pretty similar among non-jewish women also.

Since all the jews are supposedly smart and cunning and all that, you can't call them "stupid" just because they vote for the "other" guy:)

I still have my unanswered question about liberal jews: does it influence you that most of the anti-jew muslims/ palestinians, anti-semetic blacks (e.g. among Memphis democrats) are democrats?
11.3.2008 11:51am
Yankev (mail):

These are the progeny of the people who witnessed the miracles of the Exodus from Egypt then built the golden calf. As a result, they faced 40 years of wandering in the desert.
Actually, it was accepting the negative report of the 10 spies about Eretz Yisroel that led to the 40 years of wandering, until that entire generation died out. But your basic point remains valid. You might also point out that this was the best 20% of the people; according to our Sages, fully 80% died in Egypt during the plague of darkness because, even after the first 8 plagues, they were too immersed in the immorality of Egypt.
11.3.2008 11:54am
Yankev (mail):

I still have my unanswered question about liberal jews: does it influence you that most of the anti-jew muslims/ palestinians, anti-semetic blacks (e.g. among Memphis democrats) are democrats?
Sagar, anyone who can reconcile e.g. partial birth abortion with the requirements of the Jewish religion can rationalize virtually anything.
11.3.2008 11:56am
A. Zarkov (mail):
elenathehun:

"Alas, I'm a minority by any measure - a Jewish non-orthodox conservative female! It's very lonely out here..."

You're right-- you do inhabit a lonely universe. It's especially difficult when such a person goes to a Reform Temple and hears a constant drumbeat of liberal politics. It's even worse when one hears pro-Palestinian propaganda from a Rabbi. This kind of thing actually happens in Berkeley CA. A friend of mine once had his arm broken for making pro Israeli remarks in Berkeley-- at the Jewish Community Center!
11.3.2008 11:59am
A. Zarkov (mail):
M:

"But I've never heard as much out-and-out, open racism as I have, say, in the North East of Philadelphia or in the Brighton Beach area."


Why do you think what you personally heard is representative of the whole Russian Jewish community? But ok, let's say it is. On the other side, I have heard anti-Semitic remarks from the blacks. Do we have pair annihilation here?
11.3.2008 12:07pm
Rich B. (mail):
In my experience...most reform jews will vote for Obama...most conservative or orthodox jews will vote for mccain


A straw poll at my daughter's 2nd grade Hebrew School class, at a Conservative Synogogue (in a Blue State, but that's where the Jews live) went 20-2 for Obama.
11.3.2008 12:11pm
Jim at FSU (mail):
Are Jewish women really having that many abortions? Or for that matter, have jews ever benefitted from affirmative action, unions, welfare refundable tax credits or any of the other pillars of liberalism that Obama is surely going to inflict upon this country?

Was the republican party really anti-semitic back in the day? I just don't understand the undying loyalty that so many jews have to the party of Obama.
11.3.2008 12:26pm
Oren:

As opposed to ostensibly libertarian?

There is a unspoken divide between libertarians that weigh heavily social issues (sexual liberties, civil liberties) and tend to vote Democratic versus more conservative libertarians that weigh traditional economic liberty more heavily that tend to vote GOP.

Yankev, if I didn't know you better, I'd take offense. The RA are members of the RCRC and their position carries a lot of weight.


I still have my unanswered question about liberal jews: does it influence you that most of the anti-jew muslims/ palestinians, anti-semetic blacks (e.g. among Memphis democrats) are democrats

I don't see them as any better than Falwell and Robertson who cynically support Israel as part of their apocalypse narrative.
11.3.2008 12:27pm
Sarcastro (www):
Jim at FSU's comment does make ya think. Why would members of a religion vote in a way that helps people other than themselves?

It's such a mystery!
11.3.2008 12:31pm
commontheme (mail):

Anecdotal evidence suggests

a.k.a. - stuff I pull out of my rear end . . .
11.3.2008 12:34pm
Sagar:
"I don't see them as any better than Falwell and Robertson who cynically support Israel as part of their apocalypse narrative."

OK, but whatever their motive is, Falwell/Robertson support Israel, while the anti-jew blacks and muslims oppose Israel and jews. So, how can one equate both sides? In the democrat big-tent, isn't there a pecking order (among the special interests); if so, where do the liberal jews stand relative to muslims or blacks?
11.3.2008 12:35pm
A. Zarkov (mail):
Oren:

"I don't see them as any better than Falwell and Robertson who cynically support Israel as part of their apocalypse narrative."

I hear this a lot, and I'm not buying it. Let's suppose the Christian Right supports Jews and Israel solely on the basis of the End Time theory. So what-- what practical difference does it make? Why reject an ally? Didn't the US and the UK use Stalin as an ally? Why should Jews support blacks and Muslims against Christians? It's just plain stupid.

Let's deal with a concrete example. Sanne DeWitt (Jewish holocaust survivor, whose life was saved by Christians) brought Israel Bus 19 (blown up by terrorists) for a rally in Berkeley. As one might expect, the pro-Palestinian elements in Berkley opposed the project. But one wouldn't expect the Jewish community to oppose it-- they did. Even DeWitt's own (former) Rabbi opposed her. You can read the full story here. Please take the time to do so, because the details give a valuable insight into what happened. I have personally vetted the FrontPage story by talking to people who have a close personal relationship to DeWitt. The story is accurate, all of it. Moreover it was the Christians who came to her aid in the end. And let me tell you their support had nothing to do with any apocalypse narrative.
11.3.2008 1:08pm
My People Frustrate Me...:
1. Not just Russians, also Persians. Israeli immigrants are probably less liberal than natives, too, but less conservative than Russians and Persians.

2. Jews are liberal because they are raised to be liberal, and their allegiances are indoctrinated within them from birth. The Jewish community has not updated its allegiances since FDR and the Civl Rights Movement, since it is integrated into pre-rational identity. The extent of minority anti-Semitism is largely unknown to them. Jews are only somewhat aware that anti-Semitism is high among minorities, and few are aware that Republicans are not more anti-Semitic than Democrats.

3. Jews are extremely prejudiced towards evangelical Christians. In fact, one study found that the primary predictor of Jewish voting patterns in 2004 was whether Jews hate evangelicals, or just don't like them very much. Jews justify this by thinking the evangelicals hate them, and Jewish organizations have funded numerous studies into anti-Semitism on the Christian Right, only to come up with findings that the Christian RIght does not have elevated levels of anti-Semitism. Jews tend to be ignorant of this fact as well. Jews will say that Christians are out to deny them their religious freedom, but on average a Jew's concern for his or her religious freedom is inversely proportional to the frequency at which that Jew exercises that freedom. Orthodox Jews aren't worried about this. It is secular Jews who are anti-religion in general battling against all religions (including, in one famous case, going to the Supreme Court to deny an Orthodox sect busses for disabled children). It is part and parcel of the conflation of liberal secularism with Judiasm, turning many synagogues into Churches of Liberalism.

None dare call it prejudice, but the unrequited hatred that Jews have towards our (I say this as a Jew) Christian brothers and sisters, combined with ignorance of the true demographic breakdown of anti-semitism, is a vital factor driving Jewish liberalism. Immigrant communities are less liberal in part because they do not have this legacy of ingrained prejudice and outdated alliances. They arrive in this country, look at the present facts, and make a choice. This choice is likely much more rational than the one made by native Jews raised with highly politically relevant prejudices.
11.3.2008 1:18pm
Ben P:

I hear this a lot, and I'm not buying it. Let's suppose the Christian Right supports Jews and Israel solely on the basis of the End Time theory. So what-- what practical difference does it make? Why reject an ally?


So.... you have an ally that enthusiastically supports a belligerent foreign policy on your part, because they believe you will provoke your enemies (which always seems to involve russia somehow) into attacking you which will result in the fundamental destruction of not only your state, but your people? (except for the remainder that convert to Christianity.)

Explain to me again why I should consider the policy of people seeking such a narrative?
11.3.2008 1:39pm
Oren:

OK, but whatever their motive is, Falwell/Robertson support Israel, while the anti-jew blacks and muslims oppose Israel and jews. So, how can one equate both sides? In the democrat big-tent, isn't there a pecking order (among the special interests); if so, where do the liberal jews stand relative to muslims or blacks?

First, sincerity counts.

Second, what does it mean to "oppose Israel" in a meaningful sense in American politics? Nixon was a terrible antisemite and did much more for Israel than any other President.
11.3.2008 1:40pm
Oren:


I hear this a lot, and I'm not buying it. Let's suppose the Christian Right supports Jews and Israel solely on the basis of the End Time theory. So what-- what practical difference does it make? Why reject an ally?

Because they support you in order to catalyze the destruction of your nation?
11.3.2008 1:43pm
JosephSlater (mail):
So much to respond to, potentially, but I'll limit myself to one point. Jim at FSU, Jews have, in fact, benefitted from unions. In fact, a decent number of unions were formed, at least in disproportionately significant part, by us chosen folks.
11.3.2008 1:48pm
Sarcastro (www):
I hope Mickey really speaks his mind uncensored so he gets banned.

What? I'm supporting Mikey!
11.3.2008 1:50pm
Yankev (mail):

Jews are only somewhat aware that anti-Semitism is high among minorities,
When I belonged to a CJ synagogue in Minneapolis in the late 1970s, I was struck by the amount of racial prejudice among certain families in the congregation. I learned that these were families who had moved to the neighborhood from north Minneapolis in the early 1970s. North Minneapolis had been a Jewish neighborhood and integration had been welcomed by many of the Jewish families there -- until they found themselves targetted physically and politically by militant elements, by street criminals whom the militants excused and romanticized, and by anti-semitic attitudes among the newcomers. Families who had never lived in transition neighborhoods seemed to have much less prejudice.

Historically, Orthodox Jews were among the last to move out of the "old neighborhoods" in the 1960s and 1970s. This had several causes, including the difficulty and expense of replicating community institutions (synagogues, ritual baths, schools) which had to be within walking distance of their homes. The costs were aggravated by higher land and housing costs in newer and more costly neighborhoods and suburbs. The difficulty was aggravated by the need to first build a critical mass of Orthodox Jews in the new neighborhood.

Non-Orthodox Jews were always much more mobile, being generally more affluent and having less need for Jewish community institutions. They could drive whenever and whereever they chose, and many institutions -- ritual baths, yeshiva schools -- had no relevance in their lives.
11.3.2008 1:54pm
Oren:
MPFM, I don't know where you get this "indoctrination" bs, but at my religious elementary school (SSDS), the message was decidedly politically moderate. There were quite a bit of Dole bumper stickers in '96, as I recall.

Many Jews are liberal because it fits with our (personal) general disposition. Similarly for rejecting uber-literalist Christian fundamentalism, which is very discordant with the Jewish tradition of biblical interpretation.

I have no problem with the vast majority of American Christians who do not view it as their birthright to impose the doctrines of their rigid theology onto the rest of the country -- this rigidity make me question the fundy's dedication to religious pluralism, which I view as the cornerstone of modern religious thought. Note that religious pluralism is not the same as religious freedom -- given current 1A caselaw, I feel very secure in the latter -- pluralism is more of a social compact.
11.3.2008 1:55pm
Oren:
Yankev, very insightful. Given that living in an integrated neighborhood is actually negatively correlated with positive views of other races (reference upon request), the effect of greater mobility and affluence is deeper than I thought.
11.3.2008 2:00pm
Mickey:
Obama's history, his mentors and associations with anti-Israel groups are well-known. Obama's connections to the Council on American Islamic Relations and the Nation of Islam and relationships with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Rashid Khalidi, Ali Abunimah,Louis Farrakhan, Bill Ayers (killing 25 million Americans for the revolution)... and so many more.

A previous post wondered how long it would take to mention Hitler. When I look into the eyes of Obama I see E V I L! Take an honest look at the rise of Hitler and tell me that you don't see the same pattern now with his National Security Force which is very much like the "Storm Troopers" to do "crowd control".

We have already seen the Freedom of speech attacked. When was the last time a private citizen experienced a state and media attack like those that have dared to question Obama?


I just reread '1984', 'Atlas Shugged','Anthem'and "I" - Obama's road to a totalitarian dictatorship couldn't be more clear. Now I am reading the 'THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO' for the rest of the plan.
11.3.2008 2:01pm
Yankev (mail):

Because they support you in order to catalyze the destruction of your nation?
As opposed to the liberals who offer half-hearted support demanding suicidal concessions and restraints on self defense that no other nation puts up with, and who offer their support on condition that we become secular liberals just like them, put a stamp of approval on their materialism and libertine behavior and theories, so that we destroy ourselves from within?

Not much of a choice. Particulary when, pace Ben P., we recall from our history that our enemies have never needed much in the way of provocation. Our very existence as Jews was provocvaion enough for the Crusaders, the kossaks, the Nazis, the Almohades, and all the rest of the yemach shemam, and the existence of a Jewish state in the middle east, under whatever government and with whatever borders, is provocation enough for Hamas, Hizbollahm, and the PLO, yemach shemam.
11.3.2008 2:04pm
Trey (mail):
Sagar wrote: "The reason more young women vote Obama/Dem is likely for abortion rights (i have heard several say this is a "single" issue for them)."

Point taken. As an evangelical Christian, I cannot vote for someone with Senator Obama's voting record on abortion, so I would be a single issue voter if need be. But for me, there are copious reasons I cannot vote Democratic.

The issue that confuses me is Senator Obama on Israel. I do not think he will support Israel the way that McCain will, not even close. It mystifies me that this issue is more important to me, an evangelical Christian, than it is to my Jewish brothers and sisters. Can someone help me understand this disconnect?

Trey
11.3.2008 2:06pm
Devadasi:
Not being Jewish. But I do notice that middle-class immigrants in general are less likely to be single issue voters on abortion. Because no matter what the law became in the U.S, access to the procedure is always one flight away.

Historically, Russia have much higher abortion rate then U.S., and the access is unlikely to go away. I wonder IF the newly powerful Russian Orthodox church, together with concerns about the low birthrate make abortion illegal in Russia, how will that affect the young Russian Jewish women voters?
11.3.2008 2:19pm
eyesay:
Yankev "Sagar, anyone who can reconcile e.g. partial birth abortion with the requirements of the Jewish religion can rationalize virtually anything." Except that Jewish law mandates abortion whenever it is necessary to save the life of the mother.
11.3.2008 2:26pm
LM (mail):

Immigrant communities are less liberal in part because they do not have this legacy of ingrained prejudice and outdated alliances. They arrive in this country, look at the present facts, and make a choice. This choice is likely much more rational than the one made by native Jews raised with highly politically relevant prejudices.

Oh please. My fiance is a Jewish Russian immigrant, as are 95+% of the people she knows here (Russian, and mostly Jewish). The overwhelming majority of her friends oppose Obama (the name McCain rarely comes up), and they break down generally into two categories: (1) the advanced degree professionals and academics, who choose not-Obama on pretty much the same "rational" basis as Mickey, with emphasis on the "he's an Arab-loving, Jew-hating Muslim" e-mail meme, and (2) the shopkeepers, beauticians and other working class friends and acquaintances, who frequently just say, "because he's black."

Very rational. Very enlightened.
11.3.2008 2:34pm
holdfast (mail):
"Jews are extremely prejudiced towards evangelical Christians"

That really does seem to be true, and it really is very unfair. I've had a chance to spend some time in close quarters with Evangelicals, and generally like them. A few have tried to convert me - I politely declined the offer, not a problem. Some were fascinated by the history of the Jewish people and wanted to discuss - happy to oblige, except I don't know as much as I should. There were also a few jerks - some used anti-semitic words, though they often didn't know it - probably just heard and copied the words. Overall, no worse than any random population sample and likely better.

One the whole end of days thing - well, I can't get excited about it. That stuff is up to god and the leaders of Iran.
11.3.2008 2:37pm
HumphreyBogus (mail):
The key fact in this article is the 80% of young Jewish women who voted for Kerry. Some young Jewish males might want to marry one of them one day, so they keep their (possibly conservative) politics to themselves for the moment.
11.3.2008 2:40pm
eyesay:
Trey: "I do not think [Obama] will support Israel the way that McCain will, not even close."

True. No two persons will support Israel in exactly the same way.

Aside from policy differences, where I believe Obama is better for Israel, Obama's candidacy and victory sends a powerful message: long-standing hostilities can and must be put aside so we can solve the problems of today. (This is true not only because of Obama's ancestry, it is also because, as a community organizer, Obama's practice is to give all interested parties a seat at the decision-making table.) This is message that many Israelis and many Palestinians already understand, and more of them must understand it, in order get past the status quo.

Eight years of Republican-style support for Israel has not made Israel any safer. Too the contrary, had the Bush administration not greenlighted Israel's invasion of Lebanon, Hezbollah would be weaker and Israel would be more secure today.
11.3.2008 2:52pm
Oren:

As opposed to the liberals who offer half-hearted support demanding suicidal concessions

We differ there on a basic opinion -- IMO, failure to do everything we can towards a Palestinian state is an act of self destruction. There will be a 2-state solution of a 0-state solution.
11.3.2008 3:13pm
ys:

LM (mail):

Oh please. My fiance is a Jewish Russian immigrant, as are 95+% of the people she knows here (Russian, and mostly Jewish). The overwhelming majority of her friends oppose Obama (the name McCain rarely comes up), and they break down generally into two categories: (1) the advanced degree professionals and academics, who choose not-Obama on pretty much the same "rational" basis as Mickey, with emphasis on the "he's an Arab-loving, Jew-hating Muslim" e-mail meme, and (2) the shopkeepers, beauticians and other working class friends and acquaintances, who frequently just say, "because he's black."

Very rational. Very enlightened.

And you are still engaged? I would not mix with such a dim crowd. (It's "fiancee" BTW, not "fiance". It made me think YOU were female at first).
11.3.2008 3:15pm
Bored Lawyer:

Yankev "Sagar, anyone who can reconcile e.g. partial birth abortion with the requirements of the Jewish religion can rationalize virtually anything." Except that Jewish law mandates abortion whenever it is necessary to save the life of the mother.


Not after the head has emerged from the birth canal -- which is precisely what partial birth abortion is.
11.3.2008 3:17pm
Yankev (mail):
Correct, Sagar, even if it involves dismembering the fetus within the mother's womb. But this holds true only up until the time that the baby's head or the majority of the body emerges from the womb. At that time, the baby's life is considered to have equal status with the mother's, and the baby cannot be aborted even to save the mother's life.

Remember that I spoke of partial birth abortion, not abortion in general. Partial birth abortion involves delivering the entire baby except for the head, then killing the fetus by puncturing the brain. Which is why the Agudas Yisroel, a mainstream Orthodox organization, supported the Congressional ban on partial birth abortion.

So I repeat, that I can see no way to reconcile partial birth abortion with the requirements of Jewish law -- including the requirement to perform an abortion when it is necessary to save the mother's life.

With due respect to Oren and to the RA, I do not feel my knowledge or the RA's knowledge of the halacha on this issue begins to approach that of the Council of Torah Sages who sets policy for the Agudah, let alone surpasses it.
11.3.2008 3:21pm
Yankev (mail):

Obama's candidacy and victory sends a powerful message: long-standing hostilities can and must be put aside so we can solve the problems of today.
And when the Arabs recognize this fact rather than pay lip service, there will be peace. Not before. When we pretend they recognize it, or force Israel to make more and more concessions under the delusion that more concessions will bring the Arabs to this realization, Jews die.


This is message that many Israelis and many Palestinians already understand,
Name one Palestinian leader who does. If you say Abbas, I will tell you that you are at best delusional.


History has shown that the Arabs are more willing to negotiate when Israel has been perceived as strong militarily and politically than when it has been perceived as week. Human nature has not changed nearly as much as you seem to think. Some Israeli leaders, it is true, share that delusion, and as a result Israelis and Arabs die.


Eight years of Republican-style support for Israel has not made Israel any safer.
Reasonable minds can disagree. Fewer Jews were killed by terrorist than while Clinton pretended -- and forced Israel to pretend -- that Arafat was ready to make peace.


had the Bush administration not greenlighted Israel's invasion of Lebanon, Hezbollah would be weaker and Israel would be more secure today.
As a sovereign state, Israel does not need a green light from the US, and I have little use for any president -- be it Clinton, Bush 41 or Reagan -- who thinks it does. Israel is less secure today because it was lulled into not preparing for a war that Hamas and Hezbollah forced upon it, and because Olmert and his utopian advisers bungled that war and then withdrew too soon under pressure from the UN. Nothing new in that pressure or the premature withdrawal, of course. But the last thing that would make Israel safer is another delusional utopian in the White House pretending that the UN is impartial or that more concessions by Israel will bring peace. And yes, I fault Bush 43 on this as well, especially his demand via Rice that Israel "build confidence" by releasing mass murderers and disabling checkpoints in order to make it easier for them to murder again.
11.3.2008 3:34pm
Rod Blaine (mail):
> "all young Jewish women who are political activists are Democrats or otherwise on the left"

So does that mean they consider "Patriarch" a good word or a bad one?
11.3.2008 3:48pm
A. Zarkov (mail):
Ben P.

I don't understand your comment. Please reword.
11.3.2008 3:51pm
A. Zarkov (mail):
Oren:

"Because they support you in order to catalyze the destruction of your nation?"

I don't understand this comment either. Are you saying that the Christians who came to the aid of Sanne DeWitt did it because they want to destroy the US? Or is it Israel they want to destroy? Why did the Christians save DeWitt from Dachau? Why do the Jews support the Palestinians who want to kill them?

Let's try to remain concrete, and not venture into abstractions.
11.3.2008 3:58pm
Just Dropping By (mail):
Was the republican party really anti-semitic back in the day? I just don't understand the undying loyalty that so many jews have to the party of Obama.

Could it be in part attributable to the fact that in recent decades the ratio of politicians who run around making statements like, "America is a Christian nation," (or variations thereupon) skews disproportionately Republican?
11.3.2008 4:25pm
hey (mail):
I love the idea that it is better to support the people who want to kill you and all your kin today than to take the support from people who may be driven by a ridiculous and obviously non-operative theology. "Apes and pigs" is a frequent term of art in even "friendly" muslim countries, and Hamas and Hezbollah proclaim their imminent genocide, but yet it's the Evangelicals who are scary?

Part of being of the Left though. The Rosenbergs spied for Stalin, definitely not a philo-semite. Abbie Hoffman worked with the Black Panthers. Phil Weiss (amongst many) is an "anti-zionist" who supports any and all terrorist acts against Israel and Jews worldwide.

Signing up for the Left is signing up to support genocide, firstly against Jews and then against everyone else. But it's all about the ideology, and you can find weak people willing to do unspeakable things in any population and at any point in time.
11.3.2008 4:26pm
Oren:
Zarkov, sincerity counts. For the vast majority of Christians that sincerely supporting Judaism and the State of Israel, I am grateful. For the minority that support Israel as a waypost to their apocalyptic salvation, I have nothing but contempt. We don't need friends that want us to get in large (possibly nuclear) wars.

Yankev, I apologize that I misread you about abortion -- partial birth abortion (and, since definitions vary, I'll take yours for the sake of this argument) are indeed wholly forbidden by halacha. Such procedures ought to banned, except in the case of bona-fide medical necessity.
11.3.2008 4:31pm
Oren:

Was the republican party really anti-semitic back in the day? I just don't understand the undying loyalty that so many jews have to the party of Obama.

Have you listened to Nixon's tapes?
11.3.2008 4:31pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
Jews are extremely prejudiced towards evangelical Christians.


Let me see if I can try to explain why. There are many Christians who reject dispensationalism, but unfortunately there are also many who do not.

Dispensationalism says that when Christ reappears, Jews will convert or die (and burn in hell). There's an idea that exactly 144,000 will be saved. Dispensationalism also supports Zionism, because dispensationalists believe that Christ will return after the Jews are gathered in Israel.

A good example of a Christian who rejects dispensationalism is Gary DeMar. He makes clear that it's far from marginalized:

Sid Roth, host of "Messianic Vision," on the September 18, 1991, edition of the "700 Club," stated that "two-thirds of the Jewish people [living in Israel] will be exterminated."


This goes back to Walvoord, who said this:

The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried" (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah's prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah.


Walvoord was president of the Dallas Theological Seminary for over 30 years. To a certain group of Christians, he's a great hero.

A measure of the popularity of these beliefs is the success of the Left Behind series, which has sold 63 million copies. LaHaye references the idea of 144,000 Jews being saved (Tribulation Force, p. 21):

the Bible talks about 144,000 Jews springing up and traveling throughout the world. There is to be a great soul harvest, maybe a billion or more people, coming to Christ


With friends like this, Jews don't need enemies.

Which brings us to Sarah Palin. There's a bit of a problem with her accepting a blessing from the witch-hunter shortly after he spoke of "the wealth of the wicked," and about "the Israelites, that's how they work. And that's how they are, even today."
11.3.2008 5:05pm
badimitation (mail):
I'm amazed that not one person here has adverted to what is the most likely reason for the continuing Jewish-Dem nexus. That reason is race. Needless to say, Jews were instrumental, if not crucial, in ending Jim Crow. Post 1960's, Jews have continued to empathize with the plight of blacks and have wanted to see them reach some kind of success. On the other hand, the seemingly never-ending power of the "uncle Tom" myth has prevented blacks from getting out in the world and achieving. As a result, Jews, like other groups heavily represented in the upper middle-class, have little actual contact with them. So how to relate? Well, electing Obama will do lots for black self-esteem, right? QED.
11.3.2008 5:07pm
Yankev (mail):
Thaks, Oren, and for what it's worth I agree with you about the handful of flakes whose support of Israel is based on their apocalyptic vision. Though my experience may be atypical, none of the Christian supporters of Israel that I have encountered have mentioned any eschatological motivation; all claim to be motivated by, among other things, G-d's promise to Avraham Avinu (in this week's parsha, no less)that "All those who would bless you, I will bless."

I am nonetheless wary of conversionist agendas. One rally held here in Columbus some years ago did have some strong conversionist overtones. I later learned that the pastor who organized it is himself a Jew who converted to Christianity. And I have pleaded to no avail with one local secular Jewish activist to stop inviting the Jewish community to prayer breakfasts with our Christian supporters. Appreciation and gratitude go only so far. We have to remember that G-d is in charge and that any support that comes from our violating His orders is not worth the price.
11.3.2008 5:12pm
Sagar:
Oren,

"What does oppose Israel mean ..."

The way most of the muslims and anti-Israelis state their beliefs/preferences, they don't want the nation/country to exist where it is today. They may sometimes say they don't hate the jewish people, but hate the jewish state (zionists or whatever). But this is the only state the jews have as a people, so if I were a jew, I 'd want that State to be alive and well, and not just for nostalgia.

So, what common ground do the liberal jews find with the muslims and anit-semetic blacks? One such thing for young women may be abortion rights, but for the most part it seems to be dislike (or distrust) of christians. Does it make sense for jews to believe christians are a bigger threat to them than muslims?
11.3.2008 5:14pm
Yankev (mail):

With friends like this, Jews don't need enemies.
Yes, we need more TRUE friends like Jimmy Carter. Or the Anglican Peace and Justice Network (which has the endorsement of the Church of Engalnd and segments of the US Episcopalian church), the UCC, the Presbyterian Church USA and other advocates of Replacement Theology or Liberation Theology who seem themselves as the New Israel, and who analogize the Israeli-Arab conflict to the crucifixion, with the Palestinians in the role of Jesus. Good friends who will unite with us not only on important Jewish causes like making it easier for Arab terrorists to kill Jews and excusing the expulsion of Jews from Arab lands, but also such traditional Jewish interests as unrestricted access to abortion, releasing violent criminals into society, and destruction of social mores.

Let's put it another way. The liberal mainstream churches thinks they are doing G-d's will by making it harder for Jews to defend themselves against people who, in the belief that they also are doing G-d's will, are trying to kill as many Jews as they can right now and in the foreseeable future. The other group supports Jewish efforts at self-defense but holds the deluded belief that sooner or later G-d will orchestrate things so that lots of Jews will die and the rest will be "saved" to Christianity. Neither one is my top pick, but can you entertain any doubt as to which is the bigger immediate danger? If you guessed the second group, I recently received a fool proof business proposition by e-mail that may interest you from a former high official in the Nigerian government.
11.3.2008 5:27pm
Oren:
Sagar, the large (tragically unassertive) majority of Muslims would just as well live next to the State of Israel than spend the next 100 years fighting it. Concurrently, they also require resolution to the Palestinian issue (which, IMO, is in the best interests of Israel as well). The way I see it, our actions should be calibrated to strengthen the relative internal power of the moderates vis-a-vis the extremists.

As for those that do want the destruction of Israel, they are, IMO, increasingly irrelevant. While nothing is absolutely certain, I'm quite confident in Israel's ability to defend herself against any military threat of existential proportions.
11.3.2008 5:33pm
Yankev (mail):
Sagar,

Does it make sense for jews to believe christians are a bigger threat to them than muslims?
All depends when and where. Jews in Spain welcomed the Christian victory over the Muslims in 1492, and a few short months later were given the choice among conversion to Christianity, expulsion from Spain with the forefeiture or all their money and property, or death.

Right now in the US, I agree with you, but it's worth remembering that in parts of the US it's still not safe to be openly Jewish, as a special forces recruit recently learned when some of his fellow trainees beat him unconsciuous after their seargant ridiculed him for not being Christian. (I do not have a link, but it occurred on an army base in the southeast US, possibly Ft. Benning.) And though I have extreme political differences with the reform rabbi who runs Jews on First, that web site runs some sobering stories of present day Christian anti-semitism in the US. Is it better here than it was in the 1930s and 1940s? Oh, yeah. Better here than in any Muslim country? Yeah. But it's also a lot better here than London, Belgium and other countries where there is danger from Christians as well as from Muslims.
11.3.2008 5:36pm
Yankev (mail):

While nothing is absolutely certain, I'm quite confident in Israel's ability to defend herself against any military threat of existential proportions.
Yeah, if anyone gets killed by a Kassam, a stabbing attack, a pipe bomb (suicide or otherwise) or other non-existential threat, that's his tough luck, right?

It may not be existential to the state, but it's sure as hell existential to the victim.

Reminds me of those 1960's bumper stickers that One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day. Hello -- so can one pipe bomb, butcher knife, bullet or club.
11.3.2008 5:40pm
Ben P:

As opposed to the liberals who offer half-hearted support demanding suicidal concessions


Look, I strongly support the right of Israel to defend itself, strongly.

But I think, and a pretty significant portion of the population of Israel agrees, that belligerence is subject to a strong set of diminishing returns.

Israel needs to actively defend itself, but there's a point beyond which they simply cannot go, and a much lower point where more belligerence will simply cause more harm than good.

I don't know that I agree with Oren's statement that our options are a 2 state solution or a 0 state solution, but I'm not sure I disagree either. It's all a matter of degree.
11.3.2008 6:04pm
Ben P:

Ben P.

I don't understand your comment. Please reword.


I thought the point was fairly simple, but I digress.

My argument was fundamentally that the sect of evangelical Christians (dispensationalists as described above) that see Israel as a means to an end.

Yes, these groups are in favor of the US backing Israel no matter how belligerent it gets, but I would make the case that in doing so, they simply do not have Israel's best interests at heart.


On the other hand, I think Bush did have Israel's best interests in mind, but he (or his advisors) recognized that Israel's best interests might necessarily involve certain concessions toward the creation of a Palestinian state.
11.3.2008 6:10pm
eyesay:
Yankev: "One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day. Hello -- so can one pipe bomb, butcher knife, bullet or club."

True. Nobody disputes that. The question is, how do we move from the current state of hostilities, which are very costly to Israel. Jewish men serve in Tzahal for 3 years after high school, Jewish women serve for 2 years, and there's around a month per year of active duty in the reserves. National security is a huge component of the state budget, and there are both military and civilian casualties. And it's even worse for the Palestinians, who have a low standard of living, and even more casualties than the Israelis.

And everybody knows that, when peace comes, it will come with a division of the land roughly along pre-1967 borders.

So how do we move from the current state of hostilities, which are very costly to Israel? How do we encourage the peace camps on both sides, and encourage the we-want-it-all camps on both sides to accept the painful sacrifice of peaceful coexistence, which means giving up the dream of fulfilling the promise that Elohim/Allah promised all of this land to us? I wouldn't pretend to have the answers, but I do believe that there are any number of things Israel should do, including:

* stop bulldozing Palestinian olive trees

* stop expanding settlements

* stop subsidizing settlements in so many ways, including making it possible to buy homes in settlements for much less than similar homes would cost in Israel proper

* start accounting how much it costs the Israeli government to support the settlements — the Israeli government does not perform this calculation and deliberately obscures it

* stop constructing and start dismantling the fence/wall/barrier wherever it separates Palestinian homes from their farm lands

* stop de facto and de jure rules that make it difficult or impossible for Palestinians to build on their land

* pending the dismantling of settlements in Judea and Samaria, distribute water more equitably between the settlements and the Palestinians

* spend money more equitably between Jews and non-Jews within Israel proper, in areas of education, neighborhood amenities, and more

* end rampant employment discrimination on the part of major Israeli companies, including the telephone company Bezeq

These are some confidence-building steps that Israel could take that would cost it nothing (in some cases, would save Israel money) and would not sacrifice security in any way.

Of course, there are also many confidence-building steps that the Palestinians could take, and I fully agree with Abba Eban that "the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Unfortunately, I fear that this remark is beginning to apply in some ways to the Israelis as well.
11.3.2008 6:18pm
Yankev (mail):

On the other hand, I think Bush did have Israel's best interests in mind, but he (or his advisors) recognized that Israel's best interests might necessarily involve certain concessions toward the creation of a Palestinian state.


I think Bush did too, but I think he was laboring under false assumptions. Israel has shown more interest in a Palestinian state than any Palestinian leadership or electorate has. If the Palestinian leadership had not shown much more interest in killing Jews than in establishing a state, they would have had one decades ago. This was clear by the mid-1990s, and was made even clearer after the second intifada in 2001. Terrorism causes checkpoints and border closings, not the other way around.
11.3.2008 6:21pm
eyesay:
Yankev: "Terrorism causes checkpoints and border closings, not the other way around."

This reminds me of the Bob Dylan song, "With God on Our Side," which concludes, "If God's on our side, he'll stop the next war."

I agree with you that checkpoints and border closings are a response to terrorism. But to establish that the reverse is not the case, one would have to interview the terrorists themselves.

No doubt, Israeli does respond to Palestinian provocations, but it's preposterous to suggest that the Palestinians do not also respond to Israeli provocations.
11.3.2008 6:38pm
Yankev (mail):

But to establish that the reverse is not the case, one would have to interview the terrorists themselves.
Often those interviews reveal that an act of terrorism that took months to plan was "revenge" for something that happened long afterwards. Or that the act was "revenge" for the mere existence of Israel. Or for events that never happened.


No doubt, Israeli does respond to Palestinian provocations, but it's preposterous to suggest that the Palestinians do not also respond to Israeli provocations.
It is at least equally preposterous to suggest that the major "provocation" is the very existence of Israel.
11.3.2008 6:45pm
Yankev (mail):

This reminds me of the Bob Dylan song, "With God on Our Side," which concludes, "If God's on our side, he'll stop the next war."
Try the Bob Dylan song Neighborhood Bully.
http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/neighborhood-bully
11.3.2008 6:48pm
HumphreyBogus (mail):
I've never understood the argument that Jewish supporters of Israel need to be wary about their association with fundamentalist Christians for whom a gathering of Jews in Israel is a precondition for Jesus' resurrection.

Assume I'm Jewish, and I am a supporter of Israel whose views overlap with fundamentalist Christians who share the same views of Israel. There are four basic possibilities:

1. The fundamentalist Christians are right about the whole Revelations business, and, as a non-believer, I'm screwed regardless of what happens to Israel in the earthly life.

2. The fundamentalist Christians are wrong, so nothing to worry about in the whole Jesus=Messiah business. Meantime, I've got an ally in this earthly life.

3. The observant Jews are right about the Messiah, woo!

4. The observant Jews and the fundamentalist Christians are both wrong about the Messiah, but I had an ally in my support of Israel in this earthly life.

If I'm a Jew in this position, since I have to let the theological bet ride anyway, why don't I just appreciate having a political bedfellow, however strange?
11.3.2008 7:03pm
eyesay:
HumphreyBogus: "If I'm a Jew in this position, since I have to let the theological bet ride anyway, why don't I just appreciate having a political bedfellow, however strange?"

Two possible answers: (1) I might appreciate their support for Israel, but disagree with them on a variety of other issues, domestic and international. (2) I might appreciate their support for Israel, but find it lacking in nuance, and wish that their support for Israel worked in to strengthen the peace camp more than the "Greater Israel" camp.

By the way, another basic possibility is 1A: The fundamentalist Christians are partly right about the whole Revelations business, but, although I am a non-believer, I live a good life (which ought to count for something) and if and when (heh!!) the time comes, I'll accept Jesus and hope for the best.
11.3.2008 7:14pm
Mocha Java (mail):
The key fact in this article is the 80% of young Jewish women who voted for Kerry.


Explains the intermarriage rate...
11.3.2008 7:26pm
eyesay:
Yankev: "Yankev (mail): "Try the Bob Dylan song Neighborhood Bully.
http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/neighborhood-bully" [link added].

Thank you for that link. It expresses a sentiment with which I have a great deal of sympathy, but it does include one sentence that's a bit over the top: "What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love." That's contradicted by the fact that Israel is far and away the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid at about $2.5 billion per hear. (Except for Israel, a country with a per capita income estimated at $26,000 to $32,000, all other recipients of U.S. foreign aid are really poor countries.) So it's not really true that "what he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love."
11.3.2008 7:28pm
Andrew J. Lazarus (mail):
How about another possibility with the Evangelicals: they "support" Israel, but if all of the policies that they support in conjunction are put into effect, millions of people will die in war, possibly nuclear, possibly extending to the entire planet. Do you want to gamble on the correctness of their Rapture Theology that Jesus, whom the Jews didn't even believe in once, will return to Earth at that moment? Me, no thanks.
11.3.2008 9:28pm
David Warner:
elena,

"Alas, I'm a minority by any measure - a Jewish non-orthodox conservative female! It's very lonely out here..."

Hang in there, elena. They need you more than they know. I'm with you on W, making me almost as lonely among non-conservative males! I doubt he'll be this unpopular forever...
11.3.2008 10:01pm
Oren:

All depends when and where. Jews in Spain welcomed the Christian victory over the Muslims in 1492, and a few short months later were given the choice among conversion to Christianity, expulsion from Spain with the forefeiture or all their money and property, or death.

Quite poignant for me, because my father's family tree runs in Morocco for a few dozen generations before stopping dead circa 1500.

Yankev, you know quite well I meant existential threat to the existence of the country. If we are going to take every existential threat to the life of an Israeli seriously, the first step will be to ban cars. Have you seen how they drive in Tel Aviv?
11.3.2008 11:35pm
Yankev (mail):
Oren, I know you meant an existential threat to the country, and my post makes that clear. But a country has a duty to safeguard its citizens from acts of war, terrorism and crime. That's one of the primary reasons that governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. And that's why comparing terror attacks to traffic accidents is just silly. As Justice Holmes observed, "Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked."
11.4.2008 9:15am
Yankev (mail):

What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love." That's contradicted by the fact that Israel is far and away the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid at about $2.5 billion per hear. (Except for Israel, a country with a per capita income estimated at $26,000 to $32,000, all other recipients of U.S. foreign aid are really poor countries.) So it's not really true that "what he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love."
Primarily in the form of loan guaranties, which have never cost the US taxpayer a dollar, and which have enabled Israel to BUY US arms at full price, thereby boosting the US economy. But your post shows how successful Israel's enemies at pushing their "free loading Israel" propaganda to the point that even persons of good will such as you take it for granted.
11.4.2008 9:20am
eyesay:
Yankev:

1. The United States provides $2.5 billion in foreign assistance to Israel each year, and loan guaranties on top of that.

2. The United States has provided not only loan guaranties, but also actual loans, some of which have been forgiven, which does cost the U.S. taxpayer.
11.4.2008 12:20pm