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Republicans Commit Registration Fraud Too:

The LA Times reports on a GOP contractor with "a trail of fraud complaints" in California.

he 70,000 voters YPM has registered for the Republican Party this year will help combat the public perception that it is struggling amid Democratic gains nationally, give a boost to fundraising efforts and bolster member support for party leaders, political strategists from both parties say.

Those who were formerly Democrats may stop receiving phone calls and literature from that party, perhaps affecting its get-out-the-vote efforts. They also will be given only a Republican ballot in the next primary election if they do not switch their registration back before then.

Some also report having their registration status changed to absentee without their permission; if they show up at the polls without a ballot they may be unable to vote.

The Times randomly interviewed 46 of the hundreds of voters whose election records show they were recently re-registered as Republicans by YPM, and 37 of them -- more than 80% -- said that they were misled into making the change or that it was done without their knowledge.

While the lead focuses on the allegations that some people were duped into changing their party affiliation, the allegation that YPM duped people into registering for absentee ballots is far more worrisome. Such actions create a real risk that eligible voters could be disenfranchised, while also increasing the risk of actual vote fraud, because absentee vote fraud is much easier to pull off than in-person vote fraud.

Related Posts (on one page):

  1. Voter Registration Fraud Arrest:
  2. Republicans Commit Registration Fraud Too:
Robert West (mail) (www):
I don't understand the point of deliberately registering people into the wrong party (by wrong I mean "party not of their choice").

In a primary election, it seems like it would just encourage them to vote in the wrong primary, muddying the result (and who wants their ideological opponents voting in their primary?)

In a general election, it seems pointless; unless the wrong party knows not to include them in GOTV efforts, it would just cause the wrong party to waste its time and energy getting out the wrong vote.

Unless the point is to force the "wrong" party to bleed resources?
10.18.2008 3:15pm
Jonathan H. Adler (mail) (www):
Mr. West --

Based on the LA Times story, it appears that the state GOP wants to show an increase in voter registrations because it believes this will hep the party raise money, attract better candidates, etc. YPM, on the other hand, is apparently paid based upon the number of people they register, so they make more money by getting more people to sign up. The reason I posted the story, however, is because I'm interested in (and troubled by) the allegation that people are being signed up as absentee voters without their knowledge/consent. If true, this is a real problem and creates the opportunity for real mischief.

JHA
10.18.2008 3:29pm
Larry K (mail):
Robert, as the story says:

"The 70,000 voters YPM has registered for the Republican Party this year will help combat the public perception that it is struggling amid Democratic gains nationally, give a boost to fundraising efforts and bolster member support for party leaders, political strategists from both parties say.

"Those who were formerly Democrats may stop receiving phone calls and literature from that party, perhaps affecting its get-out-the-vote efforts. They also will be given only a Republican ballot in the next primary election if they do not switch their registration back before then.


"Some also report having their registration status changed to absentee without their permission; if they show up at the polls without a ballot they may be unable to vote."
10.18.2008 3:29pm
HeScreams:

Some also report having their registration status changed to absentee without their permission; if they show up at the polls without a ballot they may be unable to vote.


There are two things incorrect about this statement:

1) If you're registered as absentee, you get a ballot in the mail. That will probably be your first clue that you're registered as absentee.

2) If you're registered as absentee, and you go to the polls without your ballot, you will still be allowed to vote provisionally. When the Registrar confirms that you didn't double-vote by sending in a ballot as well as voting at the polls, your provisional ballot will be counted.

Not that I'm defending what YPM has done. I'm just saying people will still have their votes counted.
10.18.2008 3:34pm
RwLambert (mail):
Voter fraud is voter fraud. It does not matter if it is perpetrated by ACORN or YPM or anyone else. It should not be a partisan issue. Voting is one of the core foundations of our political system, and critically essential to its legitimacy. Who cares which party it involves, investigate and prosecute, now.

What I find more disturbing that reasonably well founded allegations of voter fraud, by any organization, are the reports that some individuals associated with the Obama campaign are attempting to delay or undermine investigations into ACORN's activities. That is beyond reprehensable.
10.18.2008 3:37pm
first history:
The problem is the way organizations are compensated. Right now ACORN and YPM have every reason to commit voter registration fraud, since they are paid per registrant. If they were paid a flat fee, there would be less incentive to commit fraud.
10.18.2008 3:51pm
pete (mail) (www):
A simple fix for part of this is to get rid of party registration via voter registration. In Texas you just declare what party you are in on primary day and can switch each election if you want to.

The republican party in California has a history of opposing open primaries, which I think they have a right to do, but see as a bit unnecessary.

Did the people in the story not read the form they were signing? Did they not fill it out all the way and leave parts blank? I am a bit confused by that since when I registered in California about 13 years ago I am pretty sure it was obvious that it was a voting registration form and you had to check a box saying what party you wanted to belong to.

If the YMB people did change forms without permission etc. I am fine with them going to prison, but this story does not make complete sense.
10.18.2008 3:54pm
DangerMouse:
Gee, and for the past week all liberals on this blog have been saying voter registration fraud is not voter fraud, and that both are myths anyway.

Maybe I should choose to believe them now? Or maybe I should choose not to care? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?
10.18.2008 4:36pm
just me (mail):
I think what this indicates is that there is a problem in how we register voters. Perhaps having troups of paid people out there registering people is where half the problem is.

In Texas you just declare what party you are in on primary day and can switch each election if you want to.


I won't say NH is exactly the same, but I do know we have same day registration. You can go to the poll with your license and utility bill in hand and register and vote the same day. If it is a primary, you indicate whether you want the democratic or GOP ballot (although if you are registered GOP you can't choose the DNC ballot or visa versa), and vote, and for that day you are registered to that party.

You can either stop by the table on the way out and re register as an independant or change your party affiliation at some point before the next primary-although this has to be done within a certain time frame.
10.18.2008 4:38pm
DangerMouse:
It's only a problem when the Republicans do it. Liberals can commit fraud, but it's a crime when Republicans do it.

I expect this story to be a front page NYT headline soon enough, along with an editorial on why Joe the Plumber should be arrested, beaten, and jailed for questioning THE ONE.
10.18.2008 4:50pm
EIDE_Interface (mail):
DangerMouse - exactly. It's only a crime when Republicans do it. The MSM will pretend ACORN never existed and blast YPM at us 24/7 until Nov 4th.
10.18.2008 4:52pm
Jay:
What? No one in this thread is "saddened" that Prof. Adler is posting about voter fraud? No one upset that some are impugning the outcome of an election before it happens? No one thinks this is all a dark attempt to stir up racial hatred, death threats, and vandalism? Hmm, I wonder what makes this post any different than the other one about voter fraud a few down the page...
10.18.2008 5:06pm
Matt_T:
Nobody should get paid to register voters. I would gladly pay more in tax money (words that issue from my mouth about once a decade) to extend voting registration opportunities through the government rather than have these invariably partisan groups have both a financial and political incentive to commit fraud.
10.18.2008 5:17pm
PC:
Jay, is the MSM running breathless commentary about YPM? Is Biden asking the McCain campaign to release all of the records of the campaign dealing with YPM? Is Obama asking McCain to repudiate YPM? Has anyone accused ACORN of changing party affiliation? Has anyone accused ACORN of switching people to absentee ballots?

Just checking.
10.18.2008 5:18pm
Dave N (mail):
PC,

Did John McCain ever get paid to do work of any kind for YPM?

Just checking.
10.18.2008 5:33pm
paul lukasiak (mail):
"Registering to vote absentee" is different from voting absentee -- and unless an absentee ballot is actually received in the name of a registered voter there should be no disenfranchisement possible. (Basically, absentee voting works the same way as "early voting" -- if you vote early, or vote absentee, it is noted in the registration books of the poll workers on election day.)
10.18.2008 5:39pm
news reader:
It's only a crime when Republicans do it.


Your narrative is messed up.

Associated Press: Officials: FBI investigates ACORN for voter fraud:

. . .

A second senior law enforcement official says the FBI was looking at results of recent raids on ACORN offices in several states for any evidence of a coordinated national scam.

Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because Justice Department regulations forbid discussing ongoing investigations particularly so close to an election.


If, as you claim, “It's only a crime when Republicans do it”, then what is the FBI doing?

I would believe the DoJ is acting in a partisan fashion. I would believe the DoJ is improperly continuing the wrongful activities that were disclosed in the AG firing scandal.

But any way you slice it, this news is fatal to your narrative.

Tell me when warrants are executed on YPM's office to seize documents that they've already voluntarily turned over.
10.18.2008 5:42pm
PC:
Dave N, I don't know. Maybe the FBI should investigate.
10.18.2008 5:44pm
RPT (mail):
"What I find more disturbing that reasonably well founded allegations of voter fraud, by any organization, are the reports that some individuals associated with the Obama campaign are attempting to delay or undermine investigations into ACORN's activities. That is beyond reprehensable."

The standard nonpartisan policy is not to initiate and issue a dramatic DOJ press release about a voter fraud investigation of an organization which is coordinated with the ongoing campaign of one party against that same organization. Too late to avoid the implication that the DOJ investigation is intended to benefit the party which controls the executive branch. There is also a pending criminal investigation about such partisan investigations in the past which were not based on facts and evidence.
10.18.2008 6:10pm
pete (mail) (www):

Nobody should get paid to register voters. I would gladly pay more in tax money (words that issue from my mouth about once a decade) to extend voting registration opportunities through the government rather than have these invariably partisan groups have both a financial and political incentive to commit fraud.


Your tax moeny is already spent towards that purpose. The Motor Voter Act did just that, where you can now register to vote at your DMV, welfare benefits office, library, etc. or you can call up your registrar to get them to mail you a form. It is very easy to register to vote in this country.
10.18.2008 6:14pm
pete (mail) (www):

I won't say NH is exactly the same, but I do know we have same day registration. You can go to the poll with your license and utility bill in hand and register and vote the same day. If it is a primary, you indicate whether you want the democratic or GOP ballot (although if you are registered GOP you can't choose the DNC ballot or visa versa), and vote, and for that day you are registered to that party.


Same day registration has lots of potential for abuse, but it is good that they require photo ID and recent mail since that will eliminate a lot of problems.

The other thing Texas does is early voting, where you can go to lots of different locations in your county and vote. When you show up to vote before you go to the booth you are entered into a computer database via laptop that notes that you have now voted so you can not show up at multiple locations and vote. This reduces lines on election day and is more convenient, but the safeguards to prevent fraud are still there. Also you have to register 30 days in advance.
10.18.2008 6:24pm
Greg Q (mail) (www):
I know how we can fix this problem:

1: After the election, terminate all voter registrations.

2: If you want to be registered to vote, you must, in person, go down to the city / county registrar's office and register to vote. You must show a State issued photo id (passport allowed) with an address that matches the address at which you are registering.

3: Require the registrar's offices to be open at least one weekend day all day, and be open at least 12 hours a day two days during the week.

4: If you are physically not capable of going to the Registrar's office to vote, the you can obtain a signed affidavit from your doctor saying 1: You can't make it down to vote, and 2: you are still mentally capable of making a decision and voting for yourself.

5: Unless you've moved, you must register at least 60 days before the election. If you have moved, and you were previously registered someplace else, you can "transfer" your registration between 30 and 60 days before the election. Other than that, vote where you previously registered.

No "non-partisan" registerers. No "voter registration drives." If you don't think it's worth your time to register to vote, you're almost assuredly correct. So we'll believe you.


Oh, while we're at it: end the "no-fault" absentee voting. You can only vote absentee with a legitimate reason (doctor's note, moved and couldn't re-register in time).

Finally, you can only vote in one Primary election per year. If you vote in one, and then move to a State with a later Primary, you're not eligible to vote in the second one.
10.18.2008 7:23pm
Greg Q (mail) (www):
Btw, let's be honest here:

Is YPM's behavior wrong? Yes.

Is it vote fraud? No.

No one was registered to vote who wasn't a valid voter. No one who is a valid voter is being blocked from voting in the General Election, or on an Initiatives. If anyone has a legitimate complaint, it's the State Republican Party, which now has a bunch of Democrats registered to vote during the next Republican Primary, something the Republicans don't want.

So comparing this to ACORN's fraud, or Brunner's support for it, is, at best, disingenuous.
10.18.2008 7:29pm
Baseballhead (mail):
Is YPM's behavior wrong? Yes.
Is it vote fraud? No.

Greg Q. is absolutely right WRT. What YPM (and ACORN) are doing is pretty damn dirty and the perps ought to be hammered like a bent nail, but will not be destroying the very fabric of our democracy anytime soon.
10.18.2008 7:49pm
pete (mail) (www):

Oh, while we're at it: end the "no-fault" absentee voting. You can only vote absentee with a legitimate reason (doctor's note, moved and couldn't re-register in time).

Finally, you can only vote in one Primary election per year. If you vote in one, and then move to a State with a later Primary, you're not eligible to vote in the second one.


Not too bad suggestions, but they might violate federal law. The motor voter act made a hard limit of 30 days being the longest period allowed between end of registration and election day. I agree with the spirit of them, but you would need to change the law at the federal level.

You might need to make exceptions for those in the military or otherwise living abroad.
10.18.2008 8:16pm
Assistant Village Idiot (mail) (www):
I agree with the later commenters that this has similarities to previous voter registration fraud, but is not identical. It should indeed be stopped and consequated, but it is not "destroying the very fabric of our democracy," in BBHead's apt phrase.

If this happened in reverse, I would make sure I voted viciously when handed a ballot for the Democratic primary. I encourage the irritated Democrats in CA to do the same. And next time, caveat emptor.
10.18.2008 8:39pm
just me (mail):
I agree with Greg Q on the registration.

Yes I am sure some people won't bother to register and vote, if somebody doesn't ask them to outside a grocery store, but if they can't take the time to register, then their inability to vote is their problem.

I do think half the problem here is the organizations-and while it isn't fraud in the sense that it doesn't appear at this point to involve fraudulent votes-it certainly makes the registration system and the votes appear corrupt.

I realize some people advocate making registration easy as pie, but sometimes you have to jump through hoops to do things you want to do. and I don't think a trip to city hall is that difficult. Perhaps the post office could incorporate voter registration, since they already do pass port photos. I don't know anyone who doesn't have to go to a post office at least once a year.
10.18.2008 8:56pm
PC:
So are any of the people that are concerned about registration fraud also concerned about touch screen voting machines switching votes?
10.18.2008 9:27pm
just me (mail):
PC I am actually not keen on any voting mechanism that doesn't come with a paper trail.

But I also believe that every form of voting is going to come with some amount of error rate-I don't think there is a perfect error proof system, the real question is which systems have the lowest rates, and if there is a clear enough paper trail to manage a legitimate recount if necessary.

I am actually not all that keen on computer without paper trail voting. I think it may actually be easier to cast fraudulent votes with computerized voting. I like voting that involves a person actually marking their ballot with their choice-I am fine with optical scan type machines, because you can hand count the ballots if you wanted to. Personally I am actually fine with the old fashioned pen and paper ballot-my ward used that type until the primary this year, and switched over to optical scanners.
10.18.2008 9:36pm
PDXLawyer (mail):
A good opportunity for a Republican prosecutor to go after them. Also, a good opportunity for a party spokesman to say they're pissed off and will get to the bottom of it.
10.18.2008 9:52pm
Greg Q (mail) (www):
PC,

You know, that really is a stupid question. Hell yes I'm bothered by "voting machines" that get he answer wrong.

You see, one of the fundamental differences between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans aren't idiots. We understand that bad things done for us can also be done against us. A concept that comes as a shock to Democrats WRT judicial activism, for example.

So PC, just because the only thing about that story that bothers you is that the machine seems to be throwing the votes to Republicans, doesn't mean the rest of us are that corrupt. We're not.
10.18.2008 10:06pm
JosephSlater (mail):
You see, one of the fundamental differences between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans aren't idiots.

Posts like this are yet another reason Nov. 4 can't come too soon.
10.18.2008 10:11pm
Greg Q (mail) (www):
Baseballhead,

What YPM did is stupid. What ACORN is doing is dirty.

If YPM were adding false voters to the rolls, or getting valid voters knocked off the rolls, then their actions would be akin to ACORN's. They're not (at least, I've yet to see any claims that they are).

Unless and until someone can show that YPM is acting in an ACORN like manner, claims of equivalence are just more of the disingenuousness and dishonesty that Democrats have used to try to defend the indefensible.
10.18.2008 10:15pm
RPT (mail):
The ACORN story has run its course. The organization did nothing improper, but some of the people hired to register voters did. The organization properly reported the bogus registrants. Time to think of another campaign attack.
10.19.2008 12:04am
RPT (mail):
"So are any of the people that are concerned about registration fraud also concerned about touch screen voting machines switching votes?"

Only if the switch is from R to D. It is a results-oriented concern.
10.19.2008 12:07am
Xmas (mail) (www):
YPM? LA?

Is that "Young Progressive Majority"?

http://goypm.org/
10.19.2008 2:10am
~aardvark (mail):
DangerMouse, EIDE:

Either there is something wrong with your reading comprehension, or you two are just a couple of drooling idiots. Read the title of the post again and tell me that your comments make any sense.

For the rest of us, there is actually another problem. It really does not matter who screws around with registrations, both cases should be under the microscope. But there is a difference. The allegations against ACORN and their canvassers have been two-fold. First, there is the allegation of actual fake registrations--i.e., people who do not exist or, at the very least, do not match the address and biometric information listed on the forms. Second, there are cases of the same person filling out multiple forms. Although ACORN is culpable for the conduct of their canvassers, largely because they have fairly strict quotas for them (not because they pay per ballot, as JA suggests), by law, they are obligated to submit all forms to the states. In fact, in the majority of cases, it is ACORN that identified the miscreants. Furthermore, despite many investigations, there is still no evidence that ACORN in any way directed the people their canvassers to forge and submit fraudulent forms.

Contrast this with YPM. YPM and a number of its subcontracts and associates (e.g., Sproul &Associates) have been identified not just in the cycle, but in 2004 and 2006 as well. Again, we have two-fold fraud here. First, the canvassers for YPM have been accused of seeking out only Republican voters. Those who expressed preferences that did not match their targets have either been turned away, discouraged from registering or their registrations had been thrown away. Second--and this is the crux of the more recent allegations--in some cases people have been "duped" (or, in the parlance of telephone service, "slammed") into registering Republican despite their stated preference. Similarly, some people have been registered to vote absentee when they had no such intention. There have been a number of reports that the canvassers were doing this in compliance with the instructions they got from their employer (YPM).

In both cases, you have registration fraud. In the case of ACORN, however, most, if not all of the fraud, is perpetrated on ACORN, not by ACORN. Furthermore, in the majority of cases, this fraud will have no actual impact on the elections--multiple registrants are not only unlikely to vote more than once, but they are likely to end up in jail even for voting once, and Mickey Mouse and Jive Turkey are not likely to show up at the polls. In the case of YPN, however, there is not only intent to defraud on the part of the agency, but there is also direct impact on the election, as people who believe they have been legitimately registered to vote are unable to vote because their registrations are altered or destroyed.
10.19.2008 3:11am
scattergood:
Um, am I the only one who sees a difference between the LA Times and the States of Ohio, Florida, Washington and Nevada? In these states, the proper election board or enforcement group caught the fraud, investigated, and punished.

In the case here, we have the LA TIMES reporting that wrong doing has occured. Further, the report itself states:

<b>He also said that plainclothes investigators for Secretary of State Debra Bowen, a Democrat, have conducted multiple spot checks and told his firm it is doing nothing improper.</b>

So, again, this is another MSM smear job that people buy into. On the one hand we have ACORN who has had multiple investigations, prosecutions and punishments and on the other we have YPM being investigated and seemingly cleared.
10.19.2008 3:55am
Splunge:
I dunno how sneakily registering someone as a Republican quite falls into the same category as registering someone to vote twice, under different names.

I mean, if you're registered Republican against your will, that doesn't deprive you of the right to vote in the general election, or on any nonpartisan matter like initiatives. The most it would do, if you didn't catch it, is prevent you from voting in a party primary to help select the Democratic or Republican candidate. This hardly seems like disenfranchisement. After all, the parties are not even under any requirement, legally or ethically, to let you participate in selecting their candidate at all. Historically, they did not. The Democrats, with their "superdelegates" that picked Obama over Hillary, prove the limitations party leaders put on how much input you, Joe Average, get to have anyway.

By contrast, if you vote twice, you have, roughly speaking, cut the value of some innocent citizens vote in half. You are directly disenfranchising someone.

Furthermore, if you've been registered sneakily Republican, but you're really an ass -- oops I mean donkey, you do get a little acknowledgement in the mail. If you throw it away and pay no attention, don't fix the error -- whose fault is that? You have to contribute by your negligence to the problem. By contrast, there's no defence open to the guy whose vote counts less because you voted twice.
10.19.2008 3:59am
Dan M.:
One thing that we have to remember is that these allegations are coming from California. If California goes red it will be a national scandal, so I think it's pretty clear that this is being done to affect local elections and not the presidential elections. That's on the California GOP to be investigated and likely has absolutely no connection to the McCain campaign.

That's much different than the stuff that's going on in swing states like Ohio where out-of-state Obama campaign workers are shacking up with local families so they can register to vote in Ohio.

Or a small home where THIRTEEN people registered to vote, a few voted and immediately left the country. No campaign or party affiliation for these people has been identified from what I read. Republican or Democrat, even if somehow they can weaselly declare this stuff as legal it's just plain dirty.
10.19.2008 4:43am
Tom Hanna (www):
An ACORN representative appeared on Neil Cavuto's show the other day and said, "Republicans haven't spent a cent on voter registration" in 40 years. According to ACORN, there are no Republican voter registration drives. So, this story must be a fabrication, right?
10.19.2008 6:01am
paul lukasiak (mail):
The ACORN story has run its course. The organization did nothing improper, but some of the people hired to register voters did.

Four years ago, when the GOP was playing up allegations of fraud by ACORN, I'd agree with you --- the problems associated with ACORN could have been filed under the "law of unintended consequences" back then, and there was a clear effort by the GOP/Bush administration to scapegoat ACORN while ignoring evidence of election improprieties by GOP officials.

But ACORN has not addressed the problems that its hiring/pay practices created; it still provides incentives for registration fraud, and has done nearly nothing to ensure that the new registrations it gathers are legitimate. When you know there is a problem, you fix it, and not fixing it is "improper".
10.19.2008 7:44am
just me (mail):
The ACORN story has run its course. The organization did nothing improper, but some of the people hired to register voters did. The organization properly reported the bogus registrants. Time to think of another campaign attack.


No it hasn't, the problem here is how ACORN does business. It is clear that they aren't experiencing one offs. The problems are systemic a pervasive. The organization isn't doing anything to fix the problems.

Also, even if a small portion fake registrations get through, there is the potential for vote fraud to occur.

The YPM issue only results in some people not being registered as democrats. The only allegation that would result in a "not get to vote" would be if the forms are being thrown away.

Even if you sign up for an absentee ballot you still get to vote-they just hold it provisionally until the deadline for absentee ballots arrives to make sure you only voted once.

These are two sides of the same coin-and neither is okay, but what ACORN does is create the potential for voter fraud, and as an organization they obviously haven't taken any steps to stop the problems that have occurred in the past.

Seems to me the answer is to stop registrations by volunteers or paid employees of these organizations. Require people register in person at certain approved government locations. If ACORN wants to get people registered, then they can focus on taking people to these places to get them legally registered. If people can't be bothered to go someplace to register, then whether or not they get to vote is their problem.

I also think ID should be required to vote. ACORN can help get people someplace to get their voter ID.
10.19.2008 8:30am
jukeboxgrad (mail):
pc:

is the MSM running breathless commentary about YPM? Is Biden asking the McCain campaign to release all of the records of the campaign dealing with YPM? Is Obama asking McCain to repudiate YPM? Has anyone accused ACORN of changing party affiliation? Has anyone accused ACORN of switching people to absentee ballots?

Just checking.


Here's another one. Did Obama say, in front of an audience of millions, that YPM was "maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy."

How's that for irresponsible, gratuitous, incendiary hyperbole?
10.19.2008 9:07am
RPT (mail):
"So, again, this is another MSM smear job that people buy into. On the one hand we have ACORN who has had multiple investigations, prosecutions and punishments and on the other we have YPM being investigated and seemingly cleared."

R-created narrative:

Investigations: Commenced by R's, investigated by R's (or not, i.e. David Iglesias, et al), very close to the elections, and dropped afterwards.

Prosecutions: See Investigations. Any convictions? If so, that is good.

Punishments: See Prosecutions.

Any actual record of false votes cast so as to warrant the hyberbole. No. Racial subtext fitting in with the new "welfare" theme? Draw your own conclusion.
10.19.2008 10:46am
JosephSlater (mail):
Meanwhile, Colin Powell endorses Obama.
10.19.2008 11:07am
F LEE (mail):
So now the liberal meme has been created: Even if Acorn has committed voter fraud, so has Republican groups. An investigative report from the LA Slimes about Republican activities; what a shock.

I wonder if the LA Times has a reporter in Chicago investigating anything about the Little Messiah. Naw, gotta go see what Joe the plumber has done illegal.
10.19.2008 11:13am
scattergood:
I guess the DEMOCRAT Secretary of State in Nevada, Ross Miller, is really a Republican helping to create the R-created narrative.

Or the proscecutions and convictions of ACORN workers in King County, Washington which is one of the most DEMOCRATIC controlled counties in the state. All of this while there is a DEMOCRAT mayor in Seattle (the seat of King County), Greg Nichols, and a DEMOCRAT Govenor, Christine Gregoir.

When facts get in the way, the response seems to be to create smear and hypebole. Facts my man, facts are what matter. At least you didn't try to dispute the fact that ACORN has been investigated, proscecuted and convicted by various government bodies, while the LA TIMES own article uses those same state bodies to vitiate their own claims.
10.19.2008 1:17pm
Floridan:
Greg Q: "Finally, you can only vote in one Primary election per year. If you vote in one, and then move to a State with a later Primary, you're not eligible to vote in the second one."

Is this a problem? How many people would have to move from, say, South Carolina to Indiana to have any impact on the primaries?

And wouldn't this require some national database to indicate who voted where and when? No chance of mischief there.

Moreover, the cost of keeping track of this would be assumed by who? Seems like it would be awfully expensive for such a minuscule problem (if that problem exists at all).
10.19.2008 1:54pm
just me (mail):
Is this a problem? How many people would have to move from, say, South Carolina to Indiana to have any impact on the primaries?


My guess is that it isn't an intentional problem, but it may happen. For instance NH voted the first of January. A snowbird could vote here, then head for their warmer climate and vote in that primary if they so chose.

I don't know if there is any way to catch people who do this though unless there were to be a national database for all states to compare registrations and when/whether a person already voted.
10.19.2008 2:12pm
Greg Q (mail) (www):
Floridan and just me,

We already have a problem with snowbirds being registered in multiple states, and good reason to believe that they're voting in multiple states.

So yes, we're going to need a national voter tracking database.

No, I do not think you should be tracked by your SS number.

Voter registration forms should ask if you were previously registered to vote. If you were, you have to say where, so they can inform the previous registrants your registration is no longer valid. The PR Sec of State can let the current reg SoS know if you've voted this year.

Lying about this should be a felony with permanent loss of voting rights, and 10 years in prison.
10.19.2008 5:38pm
just me (mail):
Voter registration forms should ask if you were previously registered to vote. If you were, you have to say where, so they can inform the previous registrants your registration is no longer valid. The PR Sec of State can let the current reg SoS know if you've voted this year.

Lying about this should be a felony with permanent loss of voting rights, and 10 years in prison.


I wouldn't object to this, although I still object to voter drives done by third parties. I think third parties should help get people to where they can legally register, not do the registering, that would keep at least some of the obvious registration fraud from occurring.
10.19.2008 7:19pm