What's With All the Repeated Commercials?

My wife and I tend to watch current TV shows on our computer, using the "full episodes" feature available on the networks' sites. No cable, no TiVo, all free, so long as we're watching the recent episodes (and older episodes are available cheaply for download, or via NetFlix if they're from a previous season). Some people don't like watching TV on their computers, but it works just fine for us.

Here's one puzzle, though: Though there aren't as many commercials as there are on live TV, the commercials tend to be all the same. We see a commercial at the start, then we see the same commercial ten minutes, then the same commercial ten minutes after that. It's not a huge annoyance, since they're just 15 to 30 seconds long. But I don't get it -- why would the advertisers want to bore us, even alienate us, by throwing the same commercial at us again and again? Even if we're paying attention the first time, we won't be the rest of the times. Why not give us a random mix of commercials, so that each one will be at least a little fresh?

I realize that people tend to ignore commercials, and that it may take several viewings for the viewer to absorb what's being said. But I'd think that it would be less annoying, and thus more effective, to have the several viewing be spread over several different episodes, rather than trying to get the viewer to like the product by giving him exactly the same pitch several times within an hour. I suppose I must be wrong, given that lots of smart people pay lots of money to play commercials this way. Still, if anyone has a more detailed explanation of the plan, I'd love to hear it.

Mac (mail):
I don't know. I watch TV on cable. I have noticed the same thing. I am so sick and tired of the same commercials by the time the show is over that I would be ready to scream except for judicious use of the remote.

It seems quite stupid to me. I guess some Madison Avenue type has sold the companies on this. I hope it ends soon as I can't stand it and I don't watch them at all.
9.27.2008 12:16am
Hoosier:
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true.
9.27.2008 12:22am
Grover Gardner (mail):
What was it a commercial for?
9.27.2008 12:34am
Pete Repeat:
Repetition is the key to memorization.
Repetition?
Yes, repetition. Nothing helps you remember things like repetition does.
Repetition sounds great. I wish I had some repetition right now.
Remember: repetition helps you remember.
9.27.2008 12:36am
Syd Henderson (mail):
Fewer advertisers, although you'd think the advertiser would have sense enough to have several commercials. I was getting thoroughly sick of a certain shampoo commercial the other day while watching "Heroes" online.
9.27.2008 12:36am
Gabriel (www):
I'm pretty sure that it's that they can't sell the ads very well. Another tip off to this is that these sites have a lot of public service announcements and from a business perspective PSAs are basically filler you use when you can't sell airtime.
9.27.2008 12:45am
Soronel Haetir (mail):
I don't watch TV online, but there is something similar I've noticed with my satalite feed. Many breaks have three commercials, the first and last being repeats with something else tossed between. I find that practice even more puzzling than what you describe, at least with the model you cite it could be claimed that your show is sponsored by whoever is given the ad exclusive for your viewing session. I would think the advertiser would be far better off having a series of ads in that case though, progressing through a mini story during the breaks.
9.27.2008 12:55am
CDU (mail) (www):
Another tip off to this is that these sites have a lot of public service announcements and from a business perspective PSAs are basically filler you use when you can't sell airtime.


That or commercials for their own shows. I was just watching The Mentalist on NBC.com and saw three commercials for . . . The Mentalist.
9.27.2008 12:57am
BruceM (mail) (www):
First, advertisers never see it as a negative thing (quite the contrary) when people see their same ads over and over, ad nauseum. The more you see it, the better, from their point of view. If they could have their way they'd have you see their same 30 second ad every 60 seconds. Viewer annoyance is not a factor taken into consideration by advertisers. Apparently they are right, advertising works no matter how repetitive it may be.

Second, I think there are fewer companies advertising online, for whatever reasons (new medium, questionable market, etc) so the same ads get shown over and over. Insofar as it gets repetitive, they see this as a good thing (see first point, above).
9.27.2008 1:02am
sbron:
Some of the internet radio stations have the same problem, especially with the repetitive PSAs.
9.27.2008 1:09am
Soronel Haetir (mail):
Repetitive ads on radio aren't limited to the internet :) One of my favorite stations in Idaho had a tiny amount of paid ads and about 50% PSAs. Probably explains why they switched from ultra-conservative talk radio to country music.

What amazed me was that you could get too conservative for Idaho. :)
9.27.2008 1:15am
Fub:
sbron wrote at 9.27.2008 12:09am:
Some of the internet radio stations have the same problem, especially with the repetitive PSAs.
One thing mostly explains repetition of the same PSA: show producer laziness.

PSAs are free. Most every subject matter PSA is recorded as several spots in various forms or styles, and even 10, 20, 30 and 60 second versions of the same spot. Broadcasters get CDs of PSAs by the boatload in the mail. The Advertising Council gives them away free on the web as well. So do other sources.

The only reason for a broadcaster to air the same PSA repetitively is laziness, or some peculiar desire to hammer the same message in the same form until listeners' ears are numb.
9.27.2008 2:09am
Clint:
You being irritated by the reptition: that's an emotional reaction to the ad.

Emotional reactions highlight things to tell our brain they're important to remember for some reason.

So you remember the freakin' talking cookie that wants to ask you questions about the show you're watching because it's so freakin' annoying.

Is there anyone in America who hasn't heard of "Head On"? Or know where to apply it directly?
9.27.2008 2:23am
theobromophile (www):
Is there anyone in America who hasn't heard of "Head On"? Or know where to apply it directly?

(Small voice) yes. Me. I don't watch much TV.

I heard somewhere that chain restaurants, like Starbucks, will put several stores in the same area. Now, you would think that they would be better off spreading them out a bit - after all, why do you need three places to get caramel macchiatos on the same block? - but, apparently, people see something once, think about it, see it again, get more intrigued, and, upon the third (or fourth or whatever) sighting, decide to go in.

Perhaps advertisers are working under the same theory, although it's hard to imagine people running off in the middle of Boston Legal for some super-absorbent paper towels.
9.27.2008 2:32am
Josh Bornstein (mail):
I'm not so sure that repetition is so important. The only commercial message from this year that I remember was something I saw just one time:

Orin Kerr. Wrong on buses. Wrong for America.


Wow. Powerful stuff.
9.27.2008 3:02am
TCO:
Interesting that we are 15 comments in and still no one has done the research (or had the direct working knowledge) into actual advertising best practices to see if this pattern is on purpose or not. We have some personal aenecdotal information on TV watching. And we have attempts to argue from logic, which can be summarized to two points of view: (a) they wouldn't do it, if it didn't make money, (b) looks ghastly, must be counterproductive. Maybe the comments on advertising patterns when ads aren't selling is helpful content, although pretty trite and aenecdotal as well.

Google is our friend:

google search on repeated advertising within the same show

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/447322.html

Actually, the answer above is interesting, while not exactly on this question. I bet for 10 bucks, you could get "scribe" to do a little lit search and give you the answer on exaclty the quesiton of intrest (repeated advertising within a show, perhaps repeated ads within webcast shows, where there is little overall ad content.)

Would think that y'all that are law profs and have all kind of free journals to hand, have Lexis, Nexis could search this quickly.

A phone call to Ogilvy would work too. Or even to NBC ad selling department.
9.27.2008 8:56am
The Florida Masochist (mail) (www):
I was in the hospital for 16 days in August for heart valve replacement surgery and repair of a heart aneurysm. I like watching old tv shows over those currently on network television but I wasn't up to using a laptop and the hospital had limited stations. My mind didn't concentrate or focus well because of the meds I was on, so I tended to stay away from CNN or Fox.

Don't say watch ESPN. During the day, they run Sportscenter over and over again. I prefer watching Sabrina the Teenage Witch to that.

If you note the running times of television shows as recent as the mid-70's, you would see they were 50 minutes of show counting credits. We're down to something like 42 now. A network program is almost 2 minutes of show for every one minute of commercials. A show like The West Wing if you cut off the credits and 'the recently on the West wing' I'd make a bet you'd have about 40:30 of show.

TNT had a new show a legal drama called Raising the Bar. They'd run promos every commercial break, at least once if not twice. While shows were running, they'd have promos pop up on the bottom of the screen.

Then there was AMC(American Movie Classics) which did the same except for their show Mad Men. I also got inundated with Outback Steakhouse commercials and coming attractions for the yet to be released movie Lakeview Terrace.

None of this compares to when I was stationed in the Philippines while in the Navy and went to meet my future wife's family. Tacloban, a city of 200,000 people, has one television. Back in the late 80's they ran exactly two commercials.

Cheers,

Bill
9.27.2008 9:04am
Bad (mail) (www):
The strategy here is the same as Starbucks. Viewers these days are very hard to keep on the same channel during ad breaks: they take the time to surf other channels. Thus, the more copies of your ad you have out there, the more likely they are to see it even once. The people who sit and watch the entire ad break, and thus see the repetition, are the weirdos here. :)
9.27.2008 10:07am
Joe McDermott (mail):
The real question is why is a tenured professor at a major law school too cheap to spring for $50.00 (basic) -- $100.00 (includes movies channels) a month to get cable or satellite with DVR so you can watch what you want when you want and zap the ads?
9.27.2008 11:12am
Anonymous Hoosier:
Joe McDermott: Maybe EV is perfectly capable of paying the cash price for the service, but is unwilling to invest the high value in time, stress, and aggravation that many of us have encountered trying to deal with the installers and support technicians who work for cable and satellite providers. After the local cable provider missed three consecutive appointments, then refused to return for a fourth attempt because the tardy technicians blamed me for not being home, I gave up and watch all my TV via Internet. From previous comment threads on this topic, I think it's hardly a rare experience.

To EV's question, I too find it curious -- even a commercial I like in the first play will grate on me by the end of the show. Indeed, the catchier/more memorable the commercial, the more likely it is to be obnoxious after a few repetitions. I have noticed that Hulu is increasingly mixing up the commercials, however.
9.27.2008 12:39pm
mythtv (mail):
Commercials? With a custom hosts file that redirects thousands of advertisers' ip addresses back to my own computer instead (127.0.0.1) so that third party ads are never shown, I haven't seen a commercial yet for any television shows available over the internet. Nor any other ads on web sites. An occasional one slips through, but thanks to AdblockPlus that I recently installed on Firefox, I can't remember the last time I saw any text ad, banner ad or commercial, except those that are served from within the visited site's path (http://www.example.com/ads/thisad.gif) and that is quickly taken care of by setting a new rule in the browser to ignore that particular path. Along with NoScript and Flashblock (and a few other advanced plugins that allow manipulation/editing of the web page) all the fancy, distracting, annoying ads are blocked, saving my sanity (I probably have adhd, the flash ads and animated gifs really distract/bother me), and also saving bandwidth/increasing download speed.

What bugs me are the screaming commercials on cable and over the air broadcasts and all the stations spamming every show by insisting on displaying their station icons in the lower right corner of each show which sometimes interferes with captioning at the bottom of the shows, which is sometimes shown on Discovery Channel as well as many other stations.

While tivo and mythtv have the ability to skip or strip commercials from the recorded programs, broadcasters are wising up and continually trying new tricks to prevent the commercial skipping. So if you try to strip a program of commercials, you may end up stripping out some of the program as well. Along with this, the broadcasters are starting/ending shows some seconds or even a minute or more earlier or later than the official start time, which is another one of their attempts to mess up tivo/time shifting.
9.27.2008 1:22pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
Having known a Starbucks franchise owner I can tell you there is something else going on there. The concentrated store locations are placed to take advantage of traffic patterns. In many places they are especially targetting foot traffic, so a driver is much more likely to see multiple locations.

What I find more amazing is how there are suburbs that are dense enough to support two of the giant Wal-Mart stores within a mile and a half of each other.
9.27.2008 1:22pm
Mac (mail):
theobromophile wrote:
(Small voice) yes, me.

I never heard of it either. Very small voice, too.

Bad,

Best explanation I've heard. However, when they get really obnoxious, I do remember and won't buy the product. I'll NEVER buy from 1-800-PetMeds and I have three dogs. That commercial has gotten under my skin.
9.27.2008 2:37pm
Careless:

Having known a Starbucks franchise owner

A what?
9.27.2008 2:42pm
jim47:
In a way, you'd think that online programming should have fewer repeat ads. After all, it is theoretically possible to know exactly which ads you have seen and when, whereas that information is not available to advertisers in other media.

I would think this would be particularly useful for political advertising, which seems to consist of an amazingly large number of different commercial spots these days.
9.27.2008 3:52pm
Michael (mail) (www):
Eugene,

I work in one of the media companies that put our TV shows online. My team creates the video and metadata used to publish to the web.

Yes, there is repetition of commercials. There are several reasons for this.

First, the market for online video advertising is relatively immature compared to television. The dollars involved and difference in desire for advertisers for prime online eyeballs creates a market that favors a sole advertiser buying out all the spots. With tremendous supply of online eyeballs, the advertisers have their choice of shows, and currently they are choosing to lightly advertise and to 'own' a show for advrtising purposes.

Second, repetition works. When you read "Like a Rock" you will likely be reminded of automobiles and hear a musical refrain in your head. When you are watching a popular show like Lost, and we show you the sames ads repeatedly, you will begin to associate the ad with the show. Every bit of marketing research shows that repetition works and works well, not matter how much people hate it.

Third, the future is going to be very different for online video advertising. All major television networks are working toward targeted video ads that utilize web cookies, registration info, and other deep CRM data to paint an accurate demographic description of individuals to serve up a targeted ad. What this means is that in the near future, during the same episode of a show, an online visitor from Minnesota would be shown an ad for snow tires, while a visitor from San Francisco would be shown an ad for rain tires.

As the market matures, more of this demographic segmentation and targeting will occur and everyone will start to get different ads.

The segmentation of viewers into specific targeted slices that advertisers can target is startling. With companies like Axciom around, advertisers can often identify directly to specific households and individuals. Buy a lot of baby items on your credit card? It's fairly straightforward for a CRM-based advertising systems to tie your online identity to your purchasing behavior and start showing you ads for diapers.

I hope this helps answer your questions.
9.27.2008 5:35pm
loudbegone (mail):
Michael,

"Every bit of marketing research shows that repetition works and works well, not matter how much people hate it"

Whatever your research thinks, keep using tactics that results in people hating what you produce. That will only help motivate hackers to write the applications or extensions that will help to "fingerprint" your ads so that current (mythtv, tivo, other computer based dvrs) and future time shifting applications and hardware will easily delete your annoying garbage and assist in making programs watchable again.

Dolby has already announced a new feature that "normalizes" sound levels to defeat the screaming commercials, another tactic that I'm sure your marketing research says works. That's a commercial company responding to what they perceive as a feature that their customers want. It will take less than a day for hackers to duplicate this feature into mythtv, tivo and other time shifting applications.

DVRs, or time shifting applications, and watching "television" is all going to be happening on computers, or with dvr hardware controlled by hackable operating systems (tivo is linux, mythtv is linux, ATI is open sourcing their video card firmware, everything else, including even some of Microsoft is moving to open source making all the software hackable now or in the very near future). While mythtv currently does not have the ability to "fingerprint" ads because the project simply skips them automatically instead, it is only a matter of time for the project to gain the "fingerprinting" ability because of broadcasters adopting tactics to attempt to prevent ad skipping and to disrupt time shifting (starting and ending programs seconds/minutes before or after the official start/end times. Once the software has the ability to "fingerprint" ads and store the "fingerprints" in the dvr application's database, then it will be extremely easy for the dvr software to either remove ads on the fly, or not record them altogether.

The next battle will be product placement in the shows themselves, and hackers creating the ability to automatically blank out advertised brands or overlay the advertised brands with a different brand or with other wording, or with some attractive designs created by the dvr owner or collected by a community of developers and downloaded to the dvr application by the dvr owner. This will be simple for product placement that doesn't move, a database of objects will need to be created (soda cans, coffee pots, laptops, hats, etc.), along with a database of images to overlay the objects with a large variety of sizes to cover all the different object sizes. Blanking out or overlaying product placement objects that move will be a bigger challenge, but the tougher the challenge the more hackers willing to try. I give a beta version of blanking out or overlaying moving objects about a week to creation, with a production version (1.0+) a few weeks later.

Cookies? Firefox usage is growing in the US and even larger internationally. So are the extensions that block/enable javascript, cookies, flash, ads, and other browser functions. And IE itself is now playing catch up to Firefox abilities, so it's only a matter of time for when they automatically delete cookies every time the browser session ends (I believe they announced this capability with the version that is forthcoming that also has tabs?).

Just require cookies, you say? There are ways around this. Or lose the eyeballs. Require an interstitial ad prior to being able to view content, you say? Those who have tried have watched their visitor/user base plummet. Your site isn't the only site for the content you are plugging with ads. And if the tactics become even more annoying, there will always be individuals somewhere on the internet willing to put in the time to download your content (regardless of whatever drm or other tactics you try to prevent recording), transcode the content to remove the ads and then make that commercial-free show/movie/whatever available for others to consume.

Screaming commercials? Repetitive commercials? Reliance on cookies? Registration requirements to view content? Pay careful attention to what price the RIAA, MPAA and news organizations are paying for their stubbornness and their failure to innovate. That's your future.
9.27.2008 7:55pm
Michael (mail) (www):
Loudbegone,

I don't disagree that there are many ways around the current advertising systems. I'm a technologist and sue many of them myself. There will always be ways around 'the system' and honestly we are't trying to stop a determined hacker (it costs too much).

Product placement is here and it will continue. I don't think automated placement (or blanking) of products will occur. It's just too damn hard. Human vision is extremely good and it is difficult to fool it at the cost levels required to make it practical for television. You can drop a million dollars on a scene in a motion picture, but not on a soda pop can in a tv show.

But for most viewers of television and online shows, they don't go to extraordinary lengths to avoid commercials. There will always be those that prefer to d/l torrents of their shows without commercials rather than go to web site.

We are not after those people. we are after people that missed the show when it aired and want a simple and easy way to watch it. We attempt to give our fans their shows, when they want them, where they want them.

Like it or not, advertising works. Repetition works. Jingles work. Loud ads work. Celebrity endorsements work. It is a wonderful revenue stream that pays for most of the programming that people watch. E-sell-through (iTunes, Amazon, etc.) is rising, but the dominant way television is paid for is via advertising.

The fact is that it costs quite a bit to make television programming and currently advertising is the best way to pay for it.

We are engaging in multiple distribution methods and business models now and with more on the way. Believe me, those inside media companies are not ignorant of the headache things like DRM or registration create, but we are for-profit companies and need to make money. It's a difficult balance, but as with most things, the marketplace will decide what is the best method.
9.28.2008 12:30am
richard cabeza:
Like it or not, advertising works. Repetition works. Jingles work. Loud ads work. Celebrity endorsements work. It is a wonderful revenue stream that pays for most of the programming that people watch.

Spam works. It pays to do it, or people wouldn't waste their time doing it.

What people in this thread have been saying is that they dislike it, some with great intensity. People like us avoid brands that have annoyed us; no bad jingle goes unpunished.

Thus what you're saying is that people unlike us pay for the programming, and we should be grateful that you've found a scheme that works in such a way. We understand that, but that doesn't make up for it. My response is: I'd rather pay a (very) small amount to view a show once without interruptions, but that is never an option. I mostly end up changing channels or going away from the TV without coming back... I've missed a lot of ends of shows that way, and it ultimately doesn't matter much.

In other words, such marketing as has been described is pricing the show beyond our means (of tolerance).
9.28.2008 3:12am
Stuart Buck (mail):
I watched "The Office" online, and there were several commercial breaks where the exact same Excedrin commercial was played twice. They definitely need more variety.
9.28.2008 5:24pm
John M. Perkins (mail):
Standard law school teaching:

Tell them what you are going to tell them.
Tell them.
Tell them what you just told them.
Review.
9.29.2008 11:05am