pageok
pageok
pageok
Sarah Palin -- Good for Women's Health:

From Sarah Seltzer on The Huffington Post:

When I saw that John McCain had picked Sarah Palin as his running mate this morning, I was on the elliptical trainer, and my rage propelled me to the most furious workout I've had in a while.

Hey, people pay personal trainers good money for helping motivate workouts. Send in your check, please.

Mahan Atma (mail):
Her speech was tremendously divisive. She may have energized the base, but they were going to vote for her anyway.

It's the people in the middle McCain needs to win over. A divisive, far-right fundamentalist isn't going to do it.
9.4.2008 1:41am
Careless:
I know there's a joke about saving Barrack thousands of dollars somewhere in here.
9.4.2008 1:44am
Mahan Atma (mail):
Also, by making as many aggressive attacks as she did, she rendered even more ludicrous the McCain's whole whiny bit about how the media is being really, really mean!!

Nobody is going to feel sorry for her now as the press continues to tear her into a thousand pieces.
9.4.2008 1:44am
Careless:
(you'd think I should be able to spell his first name by now)
9.4.2008 1:44am
Eugene Volokh (www):
Mahan Atma: It depends on whether the division falls, no? If it divides enough of the center from the conservatives, that's bad. If it divides enough of the center from the liberals, that's good (especially when coupled with energizing the base to bring people to the polls who might otherwise have skipped voting altogether).

All elections involve a division. (One of the definitions of "division" is "The separating of the members of a legislative body, etc. into two groups, in order to count their votes.") It's true that sometimes people will be more likely to go to your side if you seem like an inclusive uniting sort, but sometimes they will go to your side if you come across as someone who stands for something and who's willing to duke it out with the other side. So general talk of someone's being "divisive" doesn't do much for me.
9.4.2008 1:48am
Mahan Atma (mail):
"Mahan Atma: It depends on whether the division falls, no?"


Well, yes, but she clearly comes from the far, far right. Standing for something is one thing, but the majority of Americans don't share the values she stands for.
9.4.2008 1:51am
Brooks Lyman (mail):
No, but all those "fundamentalist," gun-owning, pro-life Reagan Democrats ought to get the message loud and clear!

We talk about American political parties being "big tents", and this is true, but it's worth noting that the Dems pitch their tent on the left side of the field and the Repubs on the right side; the overlap in the middle doesn't go to the edges; you can't please everyone.

We all know who's going to call the shots in the White house: the President. We hope that he'll listen to the VP, but we don't expect the VP to set the tone and direction of the administration. Given that fact, it's probably better if the running mates are operating on more or less the same wavelength.
9.4.2008 1:53am
Case2L (mail):

she clearly comes from the far, far right

I keep hearing this, but I find it a little bit of a stretch. She is definitely pro-life, but I think you'll find that many people are. I get the distinct impression that people who say this are from the far left, and so anything moderately conservative seems like it's coming from deep right-field to them.
9.4.2008 2:00am
Mahan Atma (mail):
BTW, Rudy G.? Friggin' scary...
9.4.2008 2:01am
Mahan Atma (mail):
"I keep hearing this, but I find it a little bit of a stretch."


Let's see...

She wants creationism taught in schools. She thinks it's a good idea for unwed 17-yr-old girls to have babies, but when they do, she doesn't want them to received any kind of public aid. She thinks God wants a pipeline through Canada. She wanted the library to ban books. She directed a 527 for Ted Stevens.

Shall I go on?
9.4.2008 2:04am
Mike& (mail):
When I saw that John McCain had picked Sarah Palin as his running mate this morning, I was on the elliptical trainer, and my rage propelled me to the most furious workout I've had in a while.


OMG! I was like so mad, too!

*Stomps foot. Makes mean-girl face. Looks around for people to notice me.*
9.4.2008 2:08am
Angus:
Case2L,
It's very clear on a number of issues that Palin is far to the right. Not just her positon on abortion (which is undeniably outside the mainstream), but also religion in public life, creationism in schools, climate change, protection of endangered species, the environment, sex education, etc., she is on the rightward edge of the GOP.
9.4.2008 2:12am
Clastrenster:
The question, politically, is how to pinpoint and detach from (the Bush) fatigue. Rudy G. knows this all too well. I saw him talk recently, and was struck by just how brilliantly short-sighted his notion of vision was, whether relating to testicular cancer, his divorce problems, or how half-decade after 9/11, it was no longer possible to flog his wonderful moment. A truly curious spot the US voters are in.
9.4.2008 2:15am
TLove (mail):
Minor observation: she's female.
9.4.2008 2:15am
EIDE_Interface (mail):
Mahan Atma:

Me thinks you protest too much.
9.4.2008 2:19am
EIDE_Interface (mail):
She should go back to the kitchen where she belongs.
9.4.2008 2:20am
Case2L (mail):
Angus and Mahan Atma,

Fair enough. I do think though that she is not quite as far right as many people have made her out to be. The creationism issue for instance has been misreported. In an article in the Anchorage Daily News she actually meant to say that she didn't think creationism should be on the curriculum, but that if it came up in class it should be discussed. That is a far cry from saying that evolution should not be taught in favor of creationism.
9.4.2008 2:25am
TruthInAdvertising:
The reaction from the convention speaks for itself. Like the Dems, the people attending the Republican convention, in large measure, is the right-wing of the party. These people were supporting McCain because they didn't see any other viable candidate for their party against Obama, not because they love him. They love Palin because she is one of them, the right-wing (far right, in my mind), of the Republican party.
9.4.2008 2:52am
TruthInAdvertising:
Just to make my point clear, the conventions attract the hard-core members of each party who tend to skew to the left for the Dems and the right for the Republicans. You don't see many moderates of either party in attendance.
9.4.2008 2:53am
hey (mail):
Really, what does she think she's doing? She has a baby at home and she need to take care of him!

Damn, I'm sorry, I got snowed under by Democratic talking points.
9.4.2008 4:03am
hey (mail):
If you think Sarah is the far right wing of the party,you just betray your ignorance.
9.4.2008 4:04am
Shahid Alam:
Far right wing of the party? Funny, my socially-liberal ears heard little of that tonight unless you count the example of her family. Where her appeal had a conservative take, it was to economics and to America's role in the world. Beyond that, her appeal was to reform (government, energy policies), and to character.

As long as she doesn't go for a hard cell on the social-conservative angle, and I understand she hadn't even in Alaska, I happen to know a lot of socially-liberal but otherwise moderate voters who are looking at/going to be looking at her.
9.4.2008 5:44am
EH (mail):
Case2L:
I get the distinct impression that people who say this are from the far left, and so anything moderately conservative seems like it's coming from deep right-field to them.


Let's talk about other great Pentecostals in recent American politics, like John Ashcroft.

hey:
If you think Sarah is the far right wing of the party,you just betray your ignorance.


True, that.
9.4.2008 5:49am
NickM (mail) (www):
Anyone who gets enraged by a Presidential candidate's selection of running mate is in serious need of psychotropic medication.

Nick
9.4.2008 6:54am
Steve in CT:
It appears Mahan Atma has read the talking points without doing any independent research. Case2L already took on the creationism, lets look at some others. She has already said that her daughter is engaged &will be married to the father prior to the birth of the child, thereby not being unwed.

The alleged non-funding of public aid was a request by Covenant House to expand it's services by 5.5M which was cut to 3.9M expansion. Oh, the horror they didn't get the full increase they asked for!

The case of banning library books seems pretty tenuous at best. I haven't found any corroborating information yet.
9.4.2008 7:00am
David Warner:
No books were banned, no creationism was taught, no funding was cut, no baby has an unwed mother.

All words. No deeds. Sure you're not thinking of your own candidate?

You'd think Bill's own supporters would have learned from the overwhelming effectiveness of Whitewater, Gennifer Flowers, et. al.

You guys have a winner. Ride him. Take down McCain. Palin is not the droid you're looking for. This time.

Seriously, though, I was a little disappointed by the speech, but then I realized - this is what equality looks like. She gave the usual VP attack speech. Just doing her job, whether we approve of it or not.
9.4.2008 7:41am
Federal Dog:
Mahan Atma's thoughtless repetition of repeatedly disproven fabrications is just dispiriting. Facts really do count, even during election season.
9.4.2008 8:52am
rarango (mail):
Mahan Atma: I have no doubt thats the way world looks to you; fortunately for the rest of us the world is entirely different. But by all means--continue to underestimate Gov Palin and her message. At your peril.
9.4.2008 9:08am
rbj:
I did not realize that being a "feminist" meant having to hew to a certain set of opinions. Silly me, I thought it just meant that a woman should be (to use a poor turn of phrase, but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet) taken on her own, same as a man.

I may disagree with Gov. Palin on a number of issues, but I'm not going to put her down for those opinions.
9.4.2008 9:21am
Norman Bates (mail):
Mahan Atma and people who work out on elliptical trainers will never get it. They can't understand that most of the people in this country get their exercise working and raising a family and have an empathy with Sarah Palin that Mahan Atma, Susan Seltzer, and their ilk cannot comprehend.
9.4.2008 9:24am
SassKwatch:

she clearly comes from the far, far right


I keep hearing this, but I find it a little bit of a stretch. She is definitely pro-life, but I think you'll find that many people are. I get the distinct impression that people who say this are from the far left, and so anything moderately conservative seems like it's coming from deep right-field to them.



It has been *reported* that she falls in the 'opposed to abortion even in rape cases' arm of the pro life crowd. *IF* such is the case, then she qualifies as 'far right', IMO. But I'll also withold judgement until such 'facts' are confirmed.
9.4.2008 9:25am
Glenn W. Bowen (mail):
Palin unites the party- that is more important than winning this election cycle...

That aside, if Palin PO's some dolt at the Buffooningtwat Post, I wish she was twins.
9.4.2008 9:31am
rarango (mail):
A total aside, but I have always wondered about the need for elliptical trainers, treadmills and the like when you get outside and run for free. And if you want to work out your body core, try pushups, sit ups, dips, and pullups, none of which require gym membership or expensive devices.
9.4.2008 9:56am
Adam J:
I dunno, if Dick Cheney can't drag down a presidential campaign, I don't see how Sarah Palin can.
9.4.2008 10:00am
Petrus:
Also from the Huffington Post article:
"It's no rare thing for the right wing to use prominent women to keep the rest of us down. But just because Sarah Palin is a woman doesn't mean she's good for women. And female voters know that."

Behind Seltzer's anger, there is an important subtext: The left wing can no longer claim it speaks for all "female voters." Nor can it claim, in the words of Seltzer, that "our irrational she-hormones will lead us, like sheep, to pull the lever" for the left wing candidate.

For someone who expects women to march in lock step with a left wing agenda, it is good reason to be angry.
9.4.2008 10:22am
AntonK (mail):
Poor Mahan Atma. Everything will be okay Mahan...everything will be okay....

Oh, and don't be so angry with the women amongst us. They're our sisters and mothers.
9.4.2008 10:32am
Pete Freans (mail):
...my rage propelled me to the most furious workout I've had in a while.

Her beauty is intimidating, isn't Ms. Seltzer? Keep working-out, you'll get there.
9.4.2008 10:48am
Don Miller (mail) (www):
Palin's track record from Alaska is interesting.

She is a conservative. Her inclination is to always go with a conservative solution first, but if it doesn't go through, she falls back to a populist position to get something done that people are happy with.

So while some of her personal views may be way out on the fringe, she isn't going to try and force them on an unwilling population.

About a month ago, my Mom excitedly asked me if I wanted John McCain to pick Romney as his vice-presidential canidate. I told her no, I wanted Romney to stay far away from a McCain presidency. I told her that I thought Palin would be a terrific match for McCain, but she was such a little known Governor from a low electoral state like Alaska that she didn't have a shot.

Over the past couple years I have heard a few interviews by her and had heard about some of the things she was doing up there, I liked her. I found her speech last night to be entertaining and fun.

I don't think Biden will find her to be a push over in the vice-presidential debates.
9.4.2008 10:56am
Virginian:

It has been *reported* that she falls in the 'opposed to abortion even in rape cases' arm of the pro life crowd. *IF* such is the case, then she qualifies as 'far right', IMO. But I'll also withold judgement until such 'facts' are confirmed.


It has been confirmed that BO falls in the 'if the aborted baby manages to survive the abortion and comes out alive, let's stick it in a closet until it dies' arm of the pro-abortion crowd, so I guess we all agree that he is far, far left.
9.4.2008 11:08am
David M. Nieporent (www):
She wants creationism taught in schools.
No, she doesn't.
She thinks it's a good idea for unwed 17-yr-old girls to have babies,
I don't precisely know where that comes from. I don't think she ever said, "Yay! 17-year olds should get knocked up!" (And again: there's a good chance Bristol will be both married and 18 when the baby is born.) I believe she simply thinks it's a better idea than aborting the babies of such girls. And that once the girl does get pregnant, calling the baby "punishment" is not really appropriate.
but when they do, she doesn't want them to received any kind of public aid.
I certainly don't know where that comes from. I hope it's not from the recent claim that she cut money for a state program for unwed teen mothers, which is wrong in pretty much every detail.
She thinks God wants a pipeline through Canada. She wanted the library to ban books. She directed a 527 for Ted Stevens.
Let's assume "directed a 527 for Stevens" is an accurate statement. (It's not, but let's say it is.) How would that make someone "coming from the far, far right"? Does Stevens represent the "far, far right"? Why?
9.4.2008 11:16am
David M. Nieporent (www):
It's very clear on a number of issues that Palin is far to the right. Not just her positon on abortion (which is undeniably outside the mainstream), but also religion in public life, creationism in schools, climate change, protection of endangered species, the environment, sex education, etc., she is on the rightward edge of the GOP.
I believe this is the New York Times' editorial board's definition of "outside the mainstream," which means "we disagree with it."

I know that in NYC being pro-life seems fringy, but it's a position held by a very large number of Americans. (Indeed, the hysteria over the possibility of Roe being overturned suggests that liberals realize this, even if they won't admit it; if being pro-life were really so extremist, then they'd have nothing to worry about if it were left to the legislatures.) Now, to forestall the obvious, yes, not supporting the rape exception is unusual, but to say that being anti-abortion is extremist, merely because a very minor portion of her position on the issue is, is unjustifiable.

As for the others, I don't think you'll convince many people she's "far to the right" on any of these. What did she ever say about "religion in public life" that would make her "far to the right"? As I understand it, she doesn't oppose sex ed; she just supports teaching abstinence rather than contraceptive use. Is that actually "far to the right"? Etc., etc. I'm not saying that she's not on the conservative side of the spectrum; she obviously is. But what makes her "far" to the right, rather than a mainstream conservative?
9.4.2008 11:24am
The Unbeliever:
Elliptical trainer? Bah! When we small-town folks want to exercise, we step outside and we run, instead of buying some overpriced machine to mimic the motion while you're watching MSNBC to receive today's 2 Minute Hate.

How very... cosmopolitan of Ms. Seltzer.
9.4.2008 11:32am
plutosdad (mail):
What is amazing is people are angry that McCain even picked a woman at all! They think it's unfair to have a woman run against a man because any attacks on the woman will be considered "mean" or "sexist", and so he should have picked a man "on principle". what?

This is what my boss keeps saying. So I asked "then you would also be against Hillary running?" and he told me "that's different".

I don't even understand people anymore.
9.4.2008 11:35am
plutosdad (mail):
Regarding abortion even in the case of rape and incest:
I don't understand how it matters, and why politicians wbo are against abortion say it's ok in those instances.+

Whether you believe life begins at conception, or at viability, or at birth, in all 3 cases, that's when you believe life begins no matter how it started. At one of those 3 points in time is when you are no longer a mass of cells but a human.

Now how can someone who believes that life begins at conception turn around and say "but you're not human if the mother was raped". You are either a human with rights, or you are not. There is no middle ground, "some are human and some are not", how can there be?

Rape and incest are horrible crimes, but they have nothing to do with the argument of when life begins. And yes it's quite an awful lot to ask a woman who was victimized to carry a baby to term, but if you believe life begins at conception, then I don't see how you can do anything but that (except maybe offer to help as well). I think it's all the others who claim to believe life begins at conception who actually do not.

Same with people who believe in point of viability and downs syndrome. No one really gets elective abortions that late in the pregnancy unless they discover the baby has birth defects. But if you believe in point of conception or point of viability, you can't make an exception for that either.

I'm a point of viability person myself, and the idea of discovering my baby might be retarded in the last trimester scares the hell out of me. No one wants to hear that, but if I did, well if I have the courage of my convictions then I'll ask my wife to keep our child no matter what is wrong with him, and hopefully not say "well I didn't mean in THIS case".
9.4.2008 11:46am
SATA_Interface:
I got a kick out of MSNBC. Every time a speaker went up, the caption under their name was a "Former" something-or-other. Meg Whitman, Carly F, Rudy, Romney, etc.

Also had a schadenfreude moment when the reporter interviewing Romney riposted Romney's talking point about Biden's Obama putdown by saying "well, you also said a lot of things about McCain during the primaries". He didn't say much, still held his expression perfectly, but you could see the red blush of embarassment... :-)

Palin had a great delivery, but my mom who is still undecided asked me "she's not pro-choice, right?" and I realized that those Hillary voters may not bite on McCain. He would have been better off riling up the base with other means and keeping the ticket a little more moderate on the abortion issue.
9.4.2008 11:48am
Adam J:
plutosdad - I think the issue is more nuanced then you make it. Not everyone sees the issue as black and white, many honestly aren't sure when life can be said to begin. If that's the case, you might be willing to allow a pregnant mother to have an abortion when there's a compelling need, as you are not even sure if a crime is being done by having the abortion. On the other hand, the risk might seem far less worthwhile for a pregnant woman who is merely having a "convenience" abortion.
9.4.2008 11:57am
whit:

She wants creationism taught in schools. She thinks it's a good idea for unwed 17-yr-old girls to have babies, but when they do, she doesn't want them to received any kind of public aid. She thinks God wants a pipeline through Canada. She wanted the library to ban books. She directed a 527 for Ted Stevens.



spare me the "far right" thing. let's get real

1) she does not want creationism taught in schools. that's already been debunked. she wants evolution.

2) she does NOT think it's a good idea for a 17 yr old to have a baby. that is rubbish. she does think it's a BETTER idea for them to have a baby than abort it. i'm pro-choice, but her position is HARDLY far right. please provide any evidence she doesn't want them to receive "ANY KIND OF PUBLIC AID" (your words).

3) Which books were they, fwiw. I don't think a library should carry (for example) hardcore porn. So, in that sense I'm for banning books - FROM A PUBLIC LIBRARY. Most people would not want a public library to carry hardcore porn, or white supremacist magazines, for instance. in that sense, nearly EVERYBODY is for banning books from a library. I'm honestly curious WHAT books we are talking about here.

etc.

i heard she is against abortion in the case of rape. that's about the only position that could arguably be called "far right".
9.4.2008 12:50pm
SATA_Interface:
Whit, for what it's worth, that's the position that matters most to many people. I myself have never been able to reconcile the whole abortion debate and pick a side; my mother is pro-choice, father is pro-life, and most of my female friends are pro-choice as well.

The undecideds that I know care more about the abortion thing than the bridge to Terabithia, pipelines, energy policy with Russia, 527s, etc, pregnant daughters, book banning, etc.

Those smaller items are meant to rile the liberal base in my opinion. I agree that she's not that "right" on things.
9.4.2008 1:16pm
The Oracle of Syracuse:
NickM won the thread at 5:54 this morning with this gem:

"Anyone who gets enraged by a Presidential candidate's selection of running mate is in serious need of psychotropic medication."
9.4.2008 1:38pm
whit:
SATA- in the current geopolitical/economic climate, I don't think abortion is the position that matters most to most people. I don't know how much a "many" is... but.

McCain is already solidly pro-life. Even if McCain chose a pro-choice candidate (rudy, etc.) people would still recognize the prez appoints SCOTUS judges (and that's the only real way a president affects choice), not the VP.

I guess if he chose a pro-choice Palin (im not aware there IS such a creature but...), he might get some more hillaryites than he is going to get. But... the mccain ticket is a pro-life ticket because mccain is pro-life.

For the "litmus testers" , they will vote obama no matter what.

this election will not be decided by the abortion litmus test voters. it's the swing/independents.
9.4.2008 1:38pm
b garr (mail):
Sarah is the real deal.
Who else has reformed Government as she has ???
OBama talks of Change , Sarah did it.
9.4.2008 2:21pm
Hoosier:
For what it's worth:

She's good for Hoosierwife's health. She is very enthused by Palin so far.

And I like it a lot when Mrs. Hoosier is enthused.
9.4.2008 2:32pm
ejo:
so, ruth bader ginsburg and others like her in the mainstream of America won't vote for Republicans-who knew?
9.4.2008 4:30pm
TruthInAdvertising:
"Which books were they, fwiw. I don't think a library should carry (for example) hardcore porn. So, in that sense I'm for banning books - FROM A PUBLIC LIBRARY. Most people would not want a public library to carry hardcore porn, or white supremacist magazines, for instance. in that sense, nearly EVERYBODY is for banning books from a library. I'm honestly curious WHAT books we are talking about here. "

Good question. I'm sure that the shelves of the library were filled with plenty of books that Americans would consider "hardcore porn", right? Surely, Mayor Palin was only trying to rid the library of "hardcore porn". Otherwise, her position would be wrong by your own standards.
9.4.2008 7:08pm
Dave N (mail):
TruthInAdvertising,

I think what Whit is asking for is SPECIFIC titles of books that then Mayor Palin wanted banned. To say she wanted to ban books is a mindless talking point unless it is placed in context--something usually either lost or distorted in politics.
9.4.2008 8:19pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
In regard to books/magazines at a public library, so long as the books are not sourced to the library's aquisition fund I would oppose removing any otherwise legal materials. If someone wants to donate such materials, the library should accept and make available.
9.4.2008 8:38pm
David M. Nieporent (www):
In regard to books/magazines at a public library, so long as the books are not sourced to the library's aquisition fund I would oppose removing any otherwise legal materials. If someone wants to donate such materials, the library should accept and make available.
You have an infinitely-sized library in your neck of the woods?

If not, the library has to make decisions about what to keep on its shelves and what to omit.
9.4.2008 10:10pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
I've worked on a volunteer basis at three library districts, all of which had much more trouble aquirring materials than finding space for anything that did come in.
9.4.2008 10:25pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
eugene:

So general talk of someone's being "divisive" doesn't do much for me.


Maybe the point makes more sense if you replace "divisive" with "polarizing."
9.4.2008 10:36pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
The creationism issue for instance has been misreported. In an article in the Anchorage Daily News she actually meant to say that she didn't think creationism should be on the curriculum, but that if it came up in class it should be discussed.


No, it's not a question of "misreported," and it's not a question of "meant to say." What happened is first she said one thing, and then she said something else, the next day. This is what she said first:

Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both [evolution and creationism]. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."


This is what she said the next day:

I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum.


The way it looks to me is that first she gave an answer which revealed her authentic belief, and then she backpedaled after she noticed the uproar she created.
9.4.2008 10:36pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
Really, what does she think she's doing? She has a baby at home and she need to take care of him!


No, it's not that she needs to take care of Trig. The problem is that there needs to be some parent taking care of him. Trouble is, it's not Todd, and it's not her. Palin has asked us to admire her for her parental choices. But when I actually look at her parental choices, what I see is an irresponsible parent:

what kind of role model is a woman whose fifth child was recently born with a serious issue, Down Syndrome, and then goes back to the job of Governor within days of the birth?
9.4.2008 10:36pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
If you think Sarah is the far right wing of the party,you just betray your ignorance.


Who's further right than she is? Coulter? stormfront?
9.4.2008 10:36pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
Far right wing of the party? Funny, my socially-liberal ears heard little of that tonight


You need to pay less attention to her speech and more attention to her record.
9.4.2008 10:37pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
The case of banning library books seems pretty tenuous at best. I haven't found any corroborating information yet.


A pretty detailed account is here. Palin tried, and then fired the person who got in her way.

No books were banned


Not because she didn't try. Because she was stopped by a courageous librarian who ended up sacrificing her job.

I think what Whit is asking for is SPECIFIC titles of books that then Mayor Palin wanted banned.


The article indicates that Palin got as far as complaining to the librarian about "obscenity," but didn't get as far as presenting a list of titles. The librarian made it clear right away that no books were going to be banned. Palin later fired this person.
9.4.2008 10:37pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
no creationism was taught


She's only been there 20 months. Rome wasn't built in a day.
9.4.2008 10:37pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
It has been *reported* that she falls in the 'opposed to abortion even in rape cases' arm of the pro life crowd. *IF* such is the case, then she qualifies as 'far right', IMO. But I'll also withold judgement until such 'facts' are confirmed.


I'm not sure what you would require for "confirmed" beyond this:

The candidates were pressed on their stances on abortion and were even asked what they would do if their own daughters were raped and became pregnant.

Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother's life was in danger. When it came to her daughter, she said, "I would choose life."
9.4.2008 10:37pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
So while some of her personal views may be way out on the fringe, she isn't going to try and force them on an unwilling population.


And you feel confident about this because she hasn't managed to do so in 20 months?
9.4.2008 10:37pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
Let's assume "directed a 527 for Stevens" is an accurate statement. (It's not, but let's say it is.)


Sorry to confuse you with the facts:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin began building clout in her state's political circles in part by serving as a director of an independent political group organized by the now embattled Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens. 

Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors. The group was designed to serve as a political boot camp for Republican women in the state. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings.
9.4.2008 10:37pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
yes, not supporting the rape exception is unusual, but to say that being anti-abortion is extremist, merely because a very minor portion of her position on the issue is, is unjustifiable.


If you or someone close to you was impregnated by a rapist, you would probably not think of the matter as "very minor."
9.4.2008 10:37pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
What did she ever say about "religion in public life" that would make her "far to the right"?


Try this:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God." In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."


I have this quaint idea that my government is supposed to follow the will of the people, not "God's will."
9.4.2008 10:38pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
What is amazing is people are angry that McCain even picked a woman at all!


That's because what he did is obvious tokenism. It's clear that he picked her not because she is the most qualified person.
9.4.2008 10:38pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
Also had a schadenfreude moment when the reporter interviewing Romney riposted Romney's talking point about Biden's Obama putdown by saying "well, you also said a lot of things about McCain during the primaries". He didn't say much, still held his expression perfectly, but you could see the red blush of embarassment... :-)


Indeed. Romney is on video calling McCain "dishonest." And that was his softer statement, after backpedaling from calling him a liar.

He would have been better off riling up the base with other means and keeping the ticket a little more moderate on the abortion issue.


I agree. But McCain signaled his direction when he told Rick Warren that life begins at conception.
9.4.2008 10:38pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
Who else has reformed Government as she has ??? OBama talks of Change , Sarah did it.


What Sarah "did" is replace the old set of cronies with her own new set of cronies.

And her idea of 'reform' is to lie to the public.
9.4.2008 10:38pm
lucia (mail) (www):
The local libraries in every town I have lived in periodically give away excess books. I am under the impression they do this to make space.

Our library also recently underwent massive construction to create more space. I'm under the impression they were also given funds to buy more books. The shelves are full. I don't think I've ever run across a library with empty shelves or spare space. (It's pretty easy to just never throw anything away no matter how worn or un-circulated.)

FWIW, my sister is a law librarian. She worked in at the LA county library for a while. She also reports that libraries do need to periodically get rid of book and outdated reference materials.

So, yes. Every library needs to make decisions about what books to keep on the shelves and what books to omit.

What does this tell us about the Sarah Palin story? Very little. But the story is so vague I honestly have no idea what Sarah did or said to the librarian. It may fall in the category of "So what?" or it may be horrifying.

Those who think this is a big story should provide details and/or link to newscoverage.
9.4.2008 10:40pm
TruthInAdvertising:
"If not, the library has to make decisions about what to keep on its shelves and what to omit."

Correct but that decision isn't based on the political whims of elected officials who want to cleanse the library of unpure thoughts.
9.4.2008 11:11pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
I could easily see a larger library having more materials than space, it just wasn't the case for any of the three I have been involved with. I will however note that the largest town any of the three was involved with had fewer than 1000 residents. The smallest of the three had less than 300 residents.

I also see ditching outdated reference materials as significatly different than having everything up to date and still not having space.

One library I worked for had a nearly complete collection of National Geographic dating back to the 1920s with many duplicate issues after 1960 yet also had several hundred empty feet of bookshelf space.
9.4.2008 11:14pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
"Those who think this is a big story should provide details and/or link to newscoverage [re book banning]."

I did precisely that, shortly before you posted. You probably missed it.
9.5.2008 1:53am