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Reader Poll On Palin's Speech:
How would you rate Sarah Palin's address to the Republican Convention?
Outstanding
Very Good
Good
Fair
Poor
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com

I'll leave comments open for now, but please keep comments civil or I'll delete the thread.
TimA1234 (mail):
I like her. I may not agree with her on everything, but she's salt of the earth.

Andrew Sullivan, on the other hand, is out of control. Tschuh, what's his damage?
9.3.2008 11:59pm
Tomm:
This vote seems premature. Shouldn't we wait until her speech is over?
9.3.2008 11:59pm
FlimFlamSam:
She is one of the best speakers I have ever heard. She has the same ability to communicate that Reagan and Clinton had.
9.4.2008 12:01am
OrinKerr:
Tomm,

If you think your vote will change before the end, then don't vote yet.
9.4.2008 12:01am
taney71:
Not sure who is voting poor. Seriously are these people watching the speech or just Republican hating posters?
9.4.2008 12:01am
DNL (mail):
I have a feeling that, when SNL does a 30 Rock spoof, they'll hire Sarah Palin to do a Tina Fey imitation. And I have a feeling that we'll all enjoy it.
9.4.2008 12:01am
Randy R. (mail):
Her hair is terrible. She just lost my vote.
9.4.2008 12:05am
Randy R. (mail):
I thought it was illegal to publicly state the date of your son's deployment? I'm not sure, but I thought you had to keep it quiet....
9.4.2008 12:06am
jon_r:
man, i cant wait for the biden/palin debates
9.4.2008 12:07am
Estragon (mail) (www):
Mostly "Outstanding" votes so far. Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.
9.4.2008 12:07am
Prosecutorial Indiscretion:
Let's all thank those Democratic operatives and their media cronies for lowering expectations to such a ridiculous level; it was an impressive speech by any measure, but given the hick Tupperware saleswoman image these people have been selling, it was that much easier for her to blast the ball out of the park.
9.4.2008 12:07am
Mahan Atma (mail):
"This vote seems premature. Shouldn't we wait until her speech is over?"


Why? After all, much of the speech was written by other people, before Palin was even selected.
9.4.2008 12:09am
Unlearned Foot:
its good red meat for the base. but its not going to swing independent voters, which is what mccain/palin need to do to get back the big points they lost to Obama in the last week or two. some of the points she's making are also going to give obama and biden a lot of ammunition against bush, since her criticisms apply to the current president too...
9.4.2008 12:10am
Estragon (mail) (www):
Did she mention the bridge thing again?
9.4.2008 12:12am
taney71:
McCain is running, not Bush.
9.4.2008 12:12am
Xmas (mail) (www):
I think McCain coming on stage after the speech undermined it a little at the end.
9.4.2008 12:13am
Tomm:
The speech was reasonably good, and certainly better than Biden's. But outstanding? Only if you expected Palin to be insipid.
9.4.2008 12:14am
Reinhold (mail):
I'm guessing Keith Olbermann and Ronnie Reagan Jr. are voting poor while talking into hot mics and being morally outraged that some people are blind Democrats.
9.4.2008 12:16am
DCP:

fair - good as a speech standing alone.

a little better than good for the real purpose of the speech which was to introduce her to the public (apart from the media and internet scorn) and reassure voters that she is at least competent, strong, articulate, etc...

Not as impressive as Hillary (as a political figure) but not the feeble hillbilly mom others were trying to paint her as.
9.4.2008 12:16am
Hoosier:
Wow.
9.4.2008 12:16am
Reinhold (mail):
are *not* blind Democrats, that is.
9.4.2008 12:17am
Hoosier:
(Speech was apparently written by Matt Scully, the OTHER conservative vegetarian. If I meet him, I'll have to buy him a veggie burger.)
9.4.2008 12:17am
Reinhold (mail):
I thought she was better than Hillary's clanging voice, for sure, which is pretty good considering Hillary has spent the better part of her life planning to be president, and Palin likely didn't see this coming this time last week.
9.4.2008 12:18am
FlimFlamSam:
I'm not sure where this "soft bigotry of low expectations" crap is coming from. She was unbelievably good. Excellent timing, well put together speech, great delivery.
9.4.2008 12:19am
David Warner:
We've created a monster.
9.4.2008 12:20am
Angus:
It played to the base, but no one else. And I think the extensive focus on her small town, PTA, and family background hurt her more than help.

Her "zinger" lines that conservative sites are giggling over are very "inside baseball" and I'd guess that 95% of the TV audience didn't get them. (Community organizer crack, for example)
9.4.2008 12:20am
blm28 (mail):
Maybe the effect is better if you can see her, but listening to the speech on NPR didn't leave me with the impression that it was "outstanding." Solid, but some of the shots at Obama came dangerously close to sounding petty.
9.4.2008 12:23am
Goobermunch:
I've been getting ready for trial, so I haven't had a chance to see it. Tivo is getting it for me so I can take a break over the weekend.

I'm glad she did well. I don't like her politics and won't be voting for her (or McCain), but I really dislike the way she's been portrayed and the way her state has been portrayed in the past week. I think the focus on her daughter has been wildly inappropriate.

Most importantly, I hope she's done a good enough job that people will take her seriously now.

But I'm still voting for Obama.

--G
9.4.2008 12:23am
Hoosier:
(I just voted, and appear to have won a free laptop. Hurray.)

I think one needs to keep in mind that her audience tonight was primarily GOPers. So the question to those who don't like the GOP, and who are ratig her rather low: Do you honestly think she (or any veep nominee) could have done much better with that audience?
9.4.2008 12:23am
whit:
Great speech. Loved her before. Still love her. Happy to report that there are multiple posts already at democraticunderground criticizing her HAIR which tells me everything I already knew !
9.4.2008 12:23am
Prosecutorial Indiscretion:
It played to the base, but no one else.

My mom had been supporting Obama. She was excited about Palin but still undecided going into the speech. As of about 5 minutes ago, she's voting for McCain. Just one anecdote, I know, but I think that speech appealed far beyond the base. Especially when contrasted with the over-the-top vitriol of all the people the undecideds have seen on television claiming that Sarah Palin is a PTA mom in way over her head.
9.4.2008 12:24am
therut:
GREAT SPEECH!!!!!!!!!!!! p.s. her hair is beautiful.. gosh people are petty. She is very articulate. Better than Obama. Can not wait for the debates. We just saw a future PRESIDENT of the USA. Betcha.
9.4.2008 12:30am
Really?:
Competent, but "outstanding?" Seriously? The speech was seriously overwritten in sections. Parts that should have been great lines ended up as throwaways (I'm thinking specifically here of "some candidates use change to create their careers, but some, like John McCain, use their careers to create change").

Her delivery was fine, but very... telepromptery. In particular, when she emoted it didn't feel natural at all. It felt like she saw the line and thought "this is the part where I squint my eyes in disbelief."

It was certainly good enough to push away some of the criticisms, but let's come back to earth here.
9.4.2008 12:32am
Angus:

Do you honestly think she (or any veep nominee) could have done much better with that audience?
Honestly? She could have gone out there and recited "Green Eggs and Ham" and conservatives would have vote it the best speech ever.
9.4.2008 12:34am
Toby:
One thought I had in mid speech "Is this the first time she's ever used a teleprompter"

But I loved the speech, except the 5 minutes in the middle when internet streaming cut out.
9.4.2008 12:39am
CJS (mail):
Conversely, Angus, she could have given the equivalent of the Gettysburg Address and liberals would be quipping about her hair and messing up details on the Bridge to Nowhere issue...
9.4.2008 12:41am
Houston Lawyer:
As a conservative who's had to cringe through many of George Bush's speeches, I would say that she hit the ball out of the park. I could have skipped the family introductions, but I am still smiling about her delivery of the one liners against Obama.

She is going to continue smiling and attacking Obama because she likes it. The Obama doesn't like to be mocked, but she will do it with a beautiful smile. This is going to be fun.
9.4.2008 12:42am
TK (mail):
She was amazing to do so well for such a huge audience with no experience with large audiences.

She is a true treasure.
9.4.2008 12:43am
TruthInAdvertising:
Palin's a cultural conservative. When the discussion gets off her family issues and onto her positions, I suspect that those who are giving her a look won't much like what they see. McCain's rallied the Republican base. The question is how many in the middle are going to flee once they see that he's sold his soul to the conservative devil.
9.4.2008 12:43am
FlimFlamSam:

And I think the extensive focus on her small town, PTA, and family background hurt her more than help.


You honestly believe that sort of thing HURTS the appeal to undecideds in swing states? Wow. Just wow.
9.4.2008 12:44am
Angus:

You honestly believe that sort of thing HURTS the appeal to undecideds in swing states? Wow. Just wow.
When the #1 concern about her in polls is "Is she prepared to be President," playing up your run for the PTA as part of your credentials doesn't cut it.
9.4.2008 12:47am
Moe Mentum:
I can see how she might appeal to woman independents. A different sort of appeal to Obama to be sure, but on first impression, quite effective, at least from my perspective (I'm an undecided).
9.4.2008 12:51am
FlimFlamSam:
Angus,

Nice strawman. Who has presented her PTA experience as evidence that she's "prepared" to be President?

The PTA stuff shows that she is a normal person who understands the lives of normal people, as opposed to being a member of the permanent political class (as she explicitly said). That is perfectly ok. It's pretty silly to say that Palin submitted the PTA comment as evidence of her "preparation" to be President.
9.4.2008 12:53am
Floridain:
Guliani gave a great speech. She told a great joke, but gave a not-great speech.
9.4.2008 12:53am
Hoosier:
//Angus:

Do you honestly think she (or any veep nominee) could have done much better with that audience?
Honestly? She could have gone out there and recited "Green Eggs and Ham" and conservatives would have vote it the best speech ever.//

But she didn't, Angus, my man. So that doesn't answer my question. Which, since that's what you seemed to be trying to do, is rather disapponting.

Second chance?
9.4.2008 12:55am
Hoosier:
FlimFlam: Clearly the case. She wants all the moms out there to know she was in the PTA. I bet dollars to doughnuts it impressed my sister; I'm going to have to call her tomorrow to see. (Sis is the typical 'swing voter,' but in Illinois, so it doesn't matter.)
9.4.2008 12:58am
TJIT (mail):
Angus:
It played to the base, but no one else. And I think the extensive focus on her small town, PTA, and family background hurt her more than help.
I'm not sure that is accurate. The urban areas are by and large liberal, they are going to go for obama and nothing is going to change their vote.

However, there are probably a lot of swing voters available in the rural / suburban areas. Attract enough of them and you start flipping states to the republican ticket.

I'm thinking the "small town, PTA, and family background" might be a real help to the republicans in some of the purple / swing states, like Pennsylvania and Colorado.

Palin's pick also probably helps the republicans in a lot of races (including congressional) by increasing the turnout of the base.
9.4.2008 12:59am
Kazinski:
It was outstanding because she showed that she has the ability to deliver stinging criticism without coming off as a bitch. It is a real danger for a female vice presidential candidate, unfair, but still a danger. But she seems to have a real knack for ripping into someone and not projecting a hard edge. She's going to eat Biden for lunch. And really don't take my word for it, go find yourself some Biden on YouTube and compare and contrast.
9.4.2008 12:59am
Brian G (mail) (www):
She wasn't that good tonight, she's not prepared to be President, and she should be home taking care of her family rather than running on the ticket.

I got the talking points down pat. I will be welcome amongst the cool kids again.
9.4.2008 12:59am
Wawawhat?:
Palin was fantastic. Maybe the first political speech to move me in years. She is as good a speaker as Obama, and much more compelling. I hope she stays this sharp when the teleprompters are gone.

Angus, what your beef? (Sorry, could not resist. Hope your not one of those humorless, hyper-sensitive lefties.) CJS is correct. This speech could end war and cure cancer and you guys would be ripping her for her hair. Actually I think one of the Obamatons above actually did.

The only way Obama gets elected is if a majority shut down their brains and decide I am a {insert Dem pander group here} so I am a democrat.
9.4.2008 1:00am
TruthInAdvertising:
Palin's speech tonight was actually a good thing. Some Democrats still believed that McCain was going to run an honorable campaign different from the Republican mud machine campaigns of the past. Instead, Palin showed that she's more than willing to hurl the insults and run the kind of campaign that McCain claimed he wouldn't do. Now Democrats will wake up to the fact that if they want to beat McCain, they have to be willing to get in the trenches against the sleaze merchants of Guiliani, etc. I've had a good laugh at the faux indignation over the attacks on Palin by the same people who mass e-mail the "Obama is a terrorist" message to all of their conservative friends. Democrats know they were out there and now they can see that they are controlling the McCain campaign. Game on!
9.4.2008 1:02am
wb (mail):
"small town, PTA" was to be expected. After all "bittergate" was one of the few good punches that visible hit Obama during the primary. Especially as suburban and rural voters tend to be more conservative that big city voters (already a lost cause for the republicans, aim this missile was no surprise.
9.4.2008 1:06am
enjointhis:
My take: pretty good, not outstanding. Played to the base without offending the moderate undecideds. Agree that Dems really lowered expectations. I think deep down inside, she's a tough knife-fighter and far smarter than people give her credit for. I look forward to Biden-Palin debates (in part because I can't help but think Biden will condescend to / underestimate her).

I still think the race will be much closer than people think. I also suspect that more people won't vote for Obama because of his skin color than won't vote for McCain because of Palin's gender. Which is a shame, but still likely.
9.4.2008 1:07am
Kristiba (mail):
If I hear one more Democrat say that Palin's place is in the kitchen, I am going to send a check to McCain. What happened to my party? I don't agree with her views, but this is one tough lady and we are supposed to be for women breaking through. Obama had his chance to put a women on the ticket who got more votes than he did and he went with the old white guy, Biden. I support Hillary and 4 years of moderate McCain is starting to look good, so Hillary can run against Palin in 2012. Doubt I'm alone on this one.
9.4.2008 1:08am
Angus:
My beef is that it did nothing to answer any of the questions about her readiness, nor, given her line about the bridge to nowhere, evidently her honesty.

I will admit that it was nicely delivered fluff. Style points, a 10 out of 10. Substance-wise, a zero. That's why I voted "fair" in the poll. Of course, image is everything now days in politics, so I'll admit that this will help McCain with his base.
9.4.2008 1:08am
Prosecutorial Indiscretion:
Palin's speech tonight was actually a good thing. Some Democrats still believed that McCain was going to run an honorable campaign different from the Republican mud machine campaigns of the past. Instead, Palin showed that she's more than willing to hurl the insults and run the kind of campaign that McCain claimed he wouldn't do. Now Democrats will wake up to the fact that if they want to beat McCain, they have to be willing to get in the trenches against the sleaze merchants of Guiliani, etc. I've had a good laugh at the faux indignation over the attacks on Palin by the same people who mass e-mail the "Obama is a terrorist" message to all of their conservative friends. Democrats know they were out there and now they can see that they are controlling the McCain campaign. Game on!

Right, because the last week has shown that Obama's surrogates and cronies would otherwise never stoop to personal attacks, sick rumor-mognering, and misogynistic condescension, right?
9.4.2008 1:09am
zippypinhead:
Professor Kerr: thank you for asking that comments be kept civil. Let's hope people taking advantage of the privilege of commenting here honor your request. Yes, I used the word "privilege" deliberately -- it's a privilege, not a right. Some people seem not to appreciate that distinction.

On the merits: Impressive speech! Even the early analysis I've seen so far from media types who were belittling her a few hours ago suggest that at least we won't hear folks trying any more comparisons between Sarah Palin and Dan Quayle in this election.

Another minor data point: my 17-year old son was absolutely blown away by Governor Palin's speech. He and his entire high school class seems to have Obama buttons. He said he won't be wearing his any more...
9.4.2008 1:09am
Hoosier:
"I've had a good laugh at the faux indignation over the attacks on Palin by the same people who mass e-mail the "Obama is a terrorist" message to all of their conservative friends."

TruthInAdvertising: What were their names again? Because I'm pretty sure I didn't get that email. But you've connected it to people who expressed "faux indignation." Now, that's some really good forensic work there Dan-o.

So just give us their names, and we'll be able to take your comment seriously.

Thanks!
9.4.2008 1:10am
FlimFlamSam:

My beef is that it did nothing to answer any of the questions about her readiness


Ok, I'll bite. What should she have done differently to "answer questions about her readiness"? What words could Sarah Palin say to make you believe she is ready to be President? (The truthful answer, which you will likely not give, is that there is nothing she could have said to convince YOU that she is ready to be President.)
9.4.2008 1:12am
Smokey:
Mahan Atma:
After all, much of the speech was written by other people, before Palin was even selected.
Cite, please.
9.4.2008 1:13am
EH (mail):
whit:
Happy to report that there are multiple posts already at democraticunderground criticizing her HAIR which tells me everything I already knew !


Did this knowledge affect in any way what you acquired from the criticism of John Edwards' hair not so long ago?
9.4.2008 1:13am
TruthInAdvertising:
"I support Hillary and 4 years of moderate McCain is starting to look good, so Hillary can run against Palin in 2012."

I'm sorry but by what definition is McCain a moderate? Palin is a cultural conservative. If you agree with those two and where they would take the county, how in the world did you ever end up as a Hillary supporter.

The biggest indictment of Palin isn't the criticisms about her lack of experience. It's her positions on the issues. I don't understand why it's more important to vote for an ultra-conservative woman on a ticket with a very conservative man in some bizarre example of progress for liberal and progressive women. Black Americans don't vote for Black Republicans just because they are black. They vote for the candidate that best reflects their values (which explains why black Republicans don't win in most majority black districts). Why should women be any different?
9.4.2008 1:14am
Anonnemo (mail):
For those citing the "low expectations" and those others claiming it "played to the base", allow me to offer my own humble experience.
I am most certainly not one of the base, nor am I by any means a fan of McCain. Up until now, I was planning to vote against socialism and thus against Obama. After McCain's VP pick, I was interested and of course did some homework (unlike the nutters who just made up rumors about Palin), and heard from several sources that she was a good speaker. Judging form a governor's debate posted on a blog somewhere, I had a feeling that her good performance in the debate indicated her speech would be good as well.While I didn't expect her to blow the roof off, I expected a good speech (better than Obama without a teleprompter lets say).

I voted outstanding in the poll because her speech was, her delivery was, and while she did have some trouble at a couple parts dealing with the somewhat rowdy audience, I forgive that because she recovered very well. I am now, because of this speech, voting for Palin for Vice President (and perhaps secretly hoping that whole one-heartbeat thing plays out).


p.s. Since her looks were brought up for some reason, I'll toss in two more cents: I'm gay and I still thought Palin was smoking tonight...just saying.
9.4.2008 1:15am
cirby (mail):
Some of the comments here are priceless.

"Overwritten?" You haven't paid attention to an Obama speech, have you?

"Is this the first time she's ever used a teleprompter" - She did great, you haven't seen Barack crash and burn without one (most Republicans are waiting for the debates, when Democrats realize just how much of their love for their ticket is based off of canned words.

"some of the shots at Obama came dangerously close to sounding petty" - like when Obama was snarking about Palin, and compared his experience to hers as Mayor without bothering to mention the fact that she's, you know, a Governor?
9.4.2008 1:15am
TruthInAdvertising:
"So just give us their names, and we'll be able to take your comment seriously."

I guess you're not as lucky as I am to be on the mailing lists of the local conservative groups who send these around on a regular basis. If you haven't been the recipient of this garbage, I guess you're not in the conservative circles.

"Right, because the last week has shown that Obama's surrogates and cronies would otherwise never stoop to personal attacks, sick rumor-mognering, and misogynistic condescension, right?"

Again, coming from the people peddling the "Obama = terrorist" and "Obama = Muslim" lies, I think your protests are a bit much. I've never heard conservatives speak out against these lies and in fact, they do their best to promote them.
9.4.2008 1:19am
Angus:
Ok, I'll bite. What should she have done differently to "answer questions about her readiness"?
Show some ability, any ability, to grapple with national and international issues outside of the Alaskan setting. Even the mentions she made of Russia and Iran were in the context to drilling for oil in Alaska.
9.4.2008 1:20am
whit:

Did this knaowledge affect in any way what you acquired from the criticism of John Edwards' hair not so long ago?



criticism? how could anybody criticize john edwards' hair!?!?

It's (two snaps) FAB-U-LOUS girlfriend!!


I do find it amusing that of the last two dem vice presidential candidates, one has migrated over to support the republican candidate, and the other is now an inconsequential adulturer.

but his hair??? fabulous
9.4.2008 1:20am
FlimFlamSam:

I guess you're not in the conservative circles.


I'm in conservative circles. Hell, I'm a member of a state GOP executive committee. I've never gotten the sort of Obama hate email that you're talking about or anything close to it.
9.4.2008 1:21am
Prosecutorial Indiscretion:
You have no idea what you're talking about, "Truth." I can't go into details without giving up my anonymity, which I won't do, but your arrogant assumptions about me could not possibly be more wrong.
9.4.2008 1:22am
Hoosier:
"The biggest indictment of Palin isn't the criticisms about her lack of experience. It's her positions on the issues."

. . . As of 11pm Eastern Time.
9.4.2008 1:22am
Hoosier:
Anonnemo: "p.s. Since her looks were brought up for some reason, I'll toss in two more cents: I'm gay and I still thought Palin was smoking tonight...just saying."

You da man, Anon!
9.4.2008 1:24am
FlimFlamSam:

Show some ability, any ability, to grapple with national and international issues outside of the Alaskan setting. Even the mentions she made of Russia and Iran were in the context to drilling for oil in Alaska.


I am guessing you're an Obama supporter. It does not suprise me that an Obama supporter would think that talking about something is the same as demonstrating competence.

Sarah Palin gave a great speech, and she is a good speechmaker. But it is not a reflection of her executive ability, just as Obama's speechmaking ability is not a reflection of his. Palin's executive ability is demonstrated by her (albeit brief) career in the executive branch of government. But as Palin's career in the executive branch is relatively short, it is infinitely longer than the executive careers of Obama and Biden.

The idea that anything Palin said tonight would be proof of executive competence is ludicrous, and anyone expecting that surely can't vote for Obama, because all he does is give speeches.
9.4.2008 1:27am
Hoosier:
" Even the mentions she made of Russia and Iran were in the context to drilling for oil in Alaska."

I'll check the transript tomorrow, but I think you are wrong on this. The mentions were in the context of the wider question of American energy policy. Which is, to be blunt, one of the main reasons we care about the Caspian Basin at this point in time.
9.4.2008 1:27am
Really?:
cirby - Pointing out that similar criticisms can be leveled at Obama isn't as much of a rebuttal as you seem to think it is. It's possible for two politicians to screw up in similar ways, and the fact that one does it doesn't make it okay for the other.

I didn't explicitly or implicitly compare Palin's speech to any of Obama's, so I don't see how your comment is relevant to whether or not Palin's speech was overwritten. There were lines that should have been quotable slam dunks, but were weighed down with unnecessary words.
9.4.2008 1:29am
Hoosier:
"I've never heard conservatives speak out against these lies and in fact, they do their best to promote them."

All kidding aside, Truth, which conservatives have you heard promoting these ideas? Who has been doing this?
9.4.2008 1:29am
Really?:
Hoosier:

In response to the Obama as Muslim rumors: "There's nothing to base that on... as far as I know." - Hillary Clinton.

Oh wait, I think I misread your question. Dang.
9.4.2008 1:34am
Angus:

With Russia wanting to control a vital pipeline in the Caucasus, and to divide and intimidate our European allies by using energy as a weapon, we cannot leave ourselves at the mercy of foreign suppliers.

To confront the threat that Iran might seek to cut off nearly a fifth of world energy supplies ... or that terrorists might strike again at the Abqaiq facility in Saudi Arabia ... or that Venezuela might shut off its oil deliveries ... we Americans need to produce more of our own oil and gas.

And take it from a gal who knows the North Slope of Alaska: we've got lots of both.
Here's the entire section on foreign policy. Note her solution to all these foreign problems is to drill on the North Slope of Alaska. While I'm convinced that Palin is a natural speechmaker and communicator, I'm unconvinced that she has any grasp of anything except Alaska issues.

Maybe I'm more cynical than most people. Smarm and hokiness turn me off, and there was a ton of that in her speech. I want to see real thought and contemplation from candidates. McCain, Biden, and Obama all have it, even if I disagree with McCain's stand on many issues and have a visceral dislike for Biden. I'm still waiting to hear Palin's thoughts.
9.4.2008 1:36am
Careless:
Angus:

Show some ability, any ability, to grapple with national and international issues outside of the Alaskan setting. Even the mentions she made of Russia and Iran were in the context to drilling for oil in Alaska.

You would have said "She had that speech written for her, it tells us little to nothing of what she really thinks" (ok, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd have said)

But let's face it, when you're making a prepared speech that you largely didn't write and you don't even control the writers, just about all you can do is nail the delivery.
9.4.2008 1:37am
FlimFlamSam:
Angus,

If she had read the Encyclopedia Brittanica article on Nigeria, would you think she was an expert on African countries? No, you'd say the speech was written by others and no proof that she knows anything.
9.4.2008 1:41am
FlimFlamSam:
Damn if Careless didn't beat me to it.
9.4.2008 1:41am
Consenting:
TruthinAdvertising: " Black Americans don't vote for Black Republicans just because they are black. They vote for the candidate that best reflects their values (which explains why black Republicans don't win in most majority black districts). Why should women be any different?"

OK. I'll take a stab at it. Because Blacks are, sadly and in my opinion to their own detriment, more of a special-interest voting block than women?
9.4.2008 1:44am
Night Raider (mail):
Sarah Palin has a nasal twang to her delivery I find annoying and an annoying smirk she flashes before plunging the dirk of pettyness to its hilt I find distasteful. Her arguments that she is qualified for the job make me roll my eyes. Other than that she's a great gal!
9.4.2008 1:51am
FlimFlamSam:

Sarah Palin has a nasal twang to her delivery I find annoying


And this is relevant to ANYTHING how?
9.4.2008 1:52am
TruthInAdvertising:
"I'm in conservative circles. Hell, I'm a member of a state GOP executive committee. I've never gotten the sort of Obama hate email that you're talking about or anything close to it."

Try getting an e-mail account then we can talk. I get almost daily reminders from conservatives about how Obama is secretly a Muslim, how he's connected to Osama Bin Laden, etc. Here's a flavor of what "respectable" Republicans like to circulate:

"Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya , his father's family was mainly Arabs. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro).

Obama Never Practiced Islam - You practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office."
9.4.2008 1:54am
big dirigible (mail) (www):

I want to see real thought and contemplation from candidates. McCain, Biden, and Obama all have it,

Definitely the funniest two sentences on this page.
9.4.2008 1:57am
Hoosier:
Angus: I appreciate your posting the extract. But I do think that it backs my interpretation that she mentioned the regions she mentioned in the context of energy policy, and not in the context of Alaska. She connected herself and her expereince to the issue at the end of the section. But isn't that what the veep's speech number one is about? Who am I and what do I have to offer?

Looked at another way, it's hard to imagine another veep candidate giving that speech to a room of Republicans and NOT mentioning Alaska's North Slope, as well as offshore drilling. Pawlenty would have spoken of ANWR, no?
9.4.2008 1:57am
FlimFlamSam:
TruthInAdvertising,

I'm calling bullshit. Who is the "respectable" Republican circulating that?
9.4.2008 1:59am
kiniyakki (mail):
Sarah Palin should not claim credit for two things. Selling the plane bought by Frank Murkowski. Nobody liked that, and anybody would have sold the plane. Her doing it was not a major step or bucking any trend - it was the obvious move. Likewise the bridge to nowhere. It was on the outs no matter what. Helping everyboyd put a nail in the coffin does not mean you bucked the trend. And, Alaska still got a chunk of those monies (dedicated to the bridge), but Palin just allocated them elsewhere in the State.

Sarah Palin's "independence" has just been her going against the republican machine. Democrats should divide and conquor - point out that the Republicans were either wrong before Palin (when all of Alaska's major politians were republicans) or are wrong now (the same). They cannot have it both ways (right back then, and still right now), and should acknowledge the (Republican) ills of the past.
9.4.2008 2:00am
Hoosier:
Truth--From WHICH conservatives are these emails coming? I just don't know what you mean. Are 'friends' forwarding these to you? Do they come from some organization? I have never received anything like that, and I supsect I'm more tied in with conservative circles than you.
9.4.2008 2:01am
Hoosier:
FlimFlam--Sorry. Crossed over your post.

But I have the same question: Who is the SOURCE?

again, I have never seen anything even remotely like that email. So I can't just accept that its provenance is some allegedly respectable conservative.
9.4.2008 2:04am
FlimFlamSam:

Sarah Palin's "independence" has just been her going against the republican machine.


So what? Nearly all Republicans will admit that there is a rogue element in the Party exemplified by people like Ted Stevens. Most of us hate Ted Stevens as much as any Democrat does.
9.4.2008 2:05am
FlimFlamSam:
Hoosier,

Seems that TruthInAdvertising is inaptly named. :-)
9.4.2008 2:06am
kiniyakki (mail):
I doubt they are "respectable" - but googling a chunck of that post by TruthInAdvertisign gets a lot of hits. Maybe sort them a bit and you could see who said it first.
9.4.2008 2:10am
David M. Nieporent (www):
Sarah Palin should not claim credit for two things. Selling the plane bought by Frank Murkowski. Nobody liked that, and anybody would have sold the plane. Her doing it was not a major step or bucking any trend - it was the obvious move.
Wait, so your argument is that she shouldn't claim credit for doing something because it was popular?
9.4.2008 2:16am
Hoosier:
David--I think the argument is that she shouldn't claim credit because she's on the other side.
9.4.2008 2:21am
Night Raider (mail):
"Sarah Palin has a nasal twang to her delivery I find annoying."

And this is relevant to ANYTHING how?

Consider our current red neck 'prezeedent.' The country has spent the last eight years having to listen to his folksy malapropisms and verbal blunders delivered in that Texas twang.

Before him we had to listen to the crashing bore of the 20th Century blather on in rehearsed monotones.

Sarah Palin presents a chance, however slim, that we will have to hear her bloviations or that of some speech writer in a voice that sounds like a coping saw cutting through a wall.

"Speak the speech I pray thee trippingly on the tongue." Bill Shakespeare
9.4.2008 2:22am
FlimFlamSam:
Night Raider,

Perhaps Sarah Palin will lose that ever-important voting bloc of nit-picky rhetoriticians. And who refers to Shakespeare as "Bill"?
9.4.2008 2:25am
kiniyakki (mail):
Nieporent,

My argument is that it should not be portrayed as much of an achievement. Tonight I convinced my two and a half year old son to eat ice cream. Could I claim credit for it - sure. But, should I pretend that it is a major achievement - not reall, b/c it was extemely easy. That is the case here - don't pretend it was a challenge when it was easy.

FlimFlam,

Other republicans in the boat include Frank Murkowski (our senator, then the governor, then defeated by Palin), his daughter Lisa Murkowski (nominated by Frank to fill her father's senate seat), Don Young (our representative), the mentioned Ted Stevens, his son Ben (an Alaska political player and figure in the republican party) ... I'm not sure there is a major Alaskan republican not included in this group. On a national stage, sure, it doesn't include all republicans everywhere, but I'm thinking of Alaska state politics. The politics Sara Palin says is corrupt and that she rejected is pretty much the entire Alaska Republican party.
9.4.2008 2:27am
kiniyakki (mail):
Hoosier,

What "other side"? I don't get it. Sarah is on the same side as the republicans - I think.
9.4.2008 2:29am
Bandon:
Orin,

Given that over 80% of the voters on this poll have rated Palin's speech as Very Good or Outstanding, I got to wondering how much of this response was simply a reflection of a bias in favor of the McCain-Palin ticket. Any chance you could set up a poll that asks VC posters which ticket they plan to vote for in November (leaving an option for "undecided" of course)?
9.4.2008 2:29am
FlimFlamSam:
kiniyakki,

So the mainstream GOP in Alaska has problems. Palin took them on and won against long odds. And this is a knock against her?
9.4.2008 2:32am
kiniyakki (mail):
FlimFlam,

It is a knock against the republican party in Alaska - the republican party that has been praised and supported by the national republican party at times. I can tell you are itching for a fight, so maybe it will blunt this a little if I tell you I am more frustrated with the former than the latter.
9.4.2008 2:36am
TruthInAdvertising:
"I'm calling bullshit. Who is the "respectable" Republican circulating that?"

I got that one from a local Republican who's a former elected official in my town. As kiniyakki noted, it's just an excerpt of a much longer attack on Obama. It's just one of many e-mails that I've gotten viciously attacking Obama. Is it coming from the State Republican Party? No. But it's the kind of stuff circulating widely in conservative circles. You can deny that it's being done by I've seen the e-mails and the long lists of forwards that prove otherwise.
9.4.2008 2:41am
BushPalinMcCainWin (mail):
I just wanted to note that the media butcher Palin from day one! Obama the mob boss says what he know people want to hear him say that her pregnant child is off limits then he sends his boys to do the dirty work and sits looking pretty. No experience wow, how is it that a senator Obama has time to write for book deals can't write a single law and he has spent the majority of his time a senator as campaigning president runner. So I don't understand what gives him more experience over a women governor that show up for work everyday!! By the way isn't it funny as the media will say the McCain needs to say what he will do for Americans. Well he has given a wonderful plan to lower taxes, not like Obama that wants to put the tax burden on the top 5% of the money tree. Well wake up the are the one the feed us and if they are heavily taxes it only means job cuts, lower pay, and financial security being outsourced to other countries that can do the work for cheap anyway. So wake up America as we need Palin that by the way is a perfect VP nominee for the Rep ticket. As I know Obama is just made that he could not unify his team with Hilary and give the Democrats what they really wanted as he did not want someone that was strong than him and my devoted. McCain went totally against the grain and picked the perfect VP which would help clean up the Brotherhood and make changes that would count for the good of the country.

Bush did what you are suppose to do in war fight back and let them know that we can not be overturned to a communist or dictatorship. We want other countries that have lived under these types of governments for thousand of year to change in less than 10yr!!! Wow, you have to stay steady and be in it for victory
Houston,Tx
9.4.2008 3:34am
B. R. George (mail):
As an act of public speaking, it was pretty adept.

Based on the content, I ended up more strongly opposed to her after the speech than before, but this was because of a problem I had with the message, not with the writing or the performance.
9.4.2008 3:51am
Tom Hanna (www):

whit:
Happy to report that there are multiple posts already at democraticunderground criticizing her HAIR which tells me everything I already knew !

Did this knowledge affect in any way what you acquired from the criticism of John Edwards' hair not so long ago?


You're both wrong to bring up her hair or Edward's - she has better hair than Mitt Romney and John Edwards put together.

As far as the speech, I'm wondering if her speaking skill factored into the decision to pick her because she outspeaks all the GOP primary candidates, McCain included and comes pretty close to The One Himself.
9.4.2008 4:18am
Dave N (mail):
Truthinadvertising,

I want to second Hoosier and FlimFlamSam. I get a LOT of Republican e-mails. I have never seen the trash you ascribe to Republicans. If you can't give a cite (and "I got it from a former elected Republican official in my town" is NOT a cite of anything), then I have to agree completely with FlimFlamSam on this. Put up or shut up.
9.4.2008 4:31am
the informed undecided (mail):
i have enjoyed reading everything here greatly and it is one of the mos civil opinion forums online. i just wanted to state that i get these stupid Obama emails from my aunt and willing to forward them to those who want to see.

for the record, i was a gung-ho Obama supporter from the moment i saw him in person in Aug 2007. Now, i am undecided but have been watching both sides, including both extreme sides in this race and have defended both sides when the extremes just get too extreme beyond tolerance.

And as a lifetime conservative in values, I did stand up for Obama, emailed my aunt too and every one on the mailing list back when I got some anti-Obama email. She stands her ground and I stand mine. No one's to really say if he's Christian or not other than what he says (OBAMA: As a starting point, it means I believe in — that Jesus Christ died for my sins, and that I am redeemed through him. That is a source of strength and sustenance on a daily basis. Yes, I know that I don't walk alone. And I know that if I can get myself out of the way, that I can maybe carry out in some small way what he intends. And it means that those sins that I have on a fairly regular basis, hopefully will be washed away.Source: Saddleback forum)

And for the record, I did defend the guy on my blog too. So don't say that conservatives eat up and spread this stuff. This is what I said on January 29, 2008:

"This e-mail debunked!

Many of you may have gotten that email in your box about Obama being Muslim blah blah blah..... well it's not true. But even if he was, why the fuss. He won't force you to be one. anyway, go to...
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

A letter was also sent out by religious leaders in support of the truth regarding Senator Obama, responding to these false accusations.

http://mail.google.com/mail /?ui=2&ik=65bd2f942f&realattid=f_fc1868cv0&attid=0.1&disp =vah&view=att&th=117c8677d352c932 (remove the space after "mail" and "disp")

Below is a video statement he made regarding to these accusations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWX3ar6d02A

The Accusation and refute over Obama's Church
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp


Whether or not you are for or against Obama, please seek the truth and pass this back to the people who has forwarded you that e-mail. Thank You.


In Christ,


Jen"


I always want sources too. On the Obama forums, I ask for citations on the crap they say about Palin in an email titled "The Real Sarah Palin". I'm willing to forward this too to anyone interested and decide for yourself. It's half truths, lies, and can't be proven - opinions. The sender said she couldn't tell me because of safety reasons being that it was a small town and all. I responded that anyone willing to throw their own crap out should be willing to sit and stand with it too. No response, so no credibility for me.

Her speech as great. My time in school was mostly on public speaking, watching and critiquing speakers and I think she did really really well. A tough cookie!

In all fairness to both parties and to America, I will decide after I have done all I can to make the best informed decision and vote the best on Nov 4.
9.4.2008 6:08am
the informed undecided (mail):
A letter from the Obama Campaign:

Jen --

I wasn't planning on sending you something tonight. But if you saw what I saw from the Republican convention, you know that it demands a response.

I saw John McCain's attack squad of negative, cynical politicians. They lied about Barack Obama and Joe Biden, and they attacked you for being a part of this campaign.

But worst of all -- and this deserves to be noted -- they insulted the very idea that ordinary people have a role to play in our political process.

You know that despite what John McCain and his attack squad say, everyday people have the power to build something extraordinary when we come together. Make a donation of $5 or more right now to remind them.

Both Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin specifically mocked Barack's experience as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago more than two decades ago, where he worked with people who had lost jobs and been left behind when the local steel plants closed.

Let's clarify something for them right now.

Community organizing is how ordinary people respond to out-of-touch politicians and their failed policies.

And it's no surprise that, after eight years of George Bush, millions of people have found that by coming together in their local communities they can change the course of history. That promise is what our campaign has been about from the beginning.

Throughout our history, ordinary people have made good on America's promise by organizing for change from the bottom up. Community organizing is the foundation of the civil rights movement, the women's suffrage movement, labor rights, and the 40-hour workweek. And it's happening today in church basements and community centers and living rooms across America.

Meanwhile, we still haven't gotten a single idea during the entire Republican convention about the economy and how to lift a middle class so harmed by the Bush-McCain policies.

It's now clear that John McCain's campaign has decided that desperate lies and personal attacks -- on Barack Obama and on you -- are the only way they can earn a third term for the Bush policies that McCain has supported more than 90 percent of the time.

But you can send a crystal clear message.

Enough is enough. Make your voice heard loud and clear by making a $5 donation right now:

https://donate.barackobama.com/fightback

Thank you for joining more than 2 million ordinary Americans who refuse to be silenced.

David

David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America
9.4.2008 6:40am
the informed undecided (mail):
they keep asking for the money but they never tell supporters that he makes over 4 million (http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog /2008/04/obama-releases.html) and hate on McCain's 7 houses (http://news.yahoo. com/s/ap/20080822/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_houses). The anti 7 houses ad by Obama http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=lCMVL5tXLGQ.

Ok no more.... back to Palin.... I <3 her.
9.4.2008 6:49am
LM (mail):
Very effective speech. Objectionable for a myriad reasons I'll leave aside for now. If she'd written it herself I'd be very impressed. Excellent delivery you'd expect from a former (sports) newscaster. I don't know what people were thinking who questioned her teleprompter skills. Handicapping the candidates' ability to sell their message, I agree with those who put her and Obama in one class and everyone else (Biden, McCain, Hillary, Romney...) far behind.

I'd expect her speech to get a decent bounce whatever McCain does tomorrow. Whether she deserves it remains to be seen.
9.4.2008 7:28am
Hoosier:
"If she'd written it herself I'd be very impressed. "

LM: That's not worthy of you. You are NOT a regurgitator of talking points. Am I now supposed to respond with "I think she got most of it from Neil Kinnock"?

Come on.
9.4.2008 8:55am
Fury:
the informed undecided writes:

... cites letter from Obama Campaign which starts with:

I wasn't planning on sending you something tonight.

Right...
9.4.2008 9:11am
LM (mail):
Hoosier,

Do you think I was stingy with my praise for Palin, putting her alone in a class with Obama for ability to sell their messages? What's wrong with saying I was impressed with the speech writer as well as the speaker? You can't think it's irrelevant that writing and delivering a speech are distinct and reveal different talents. When I hear "Mr Gorbachev, tear down that wall" I think Peter Robinson as much as I do Ronald Reagan. I blame David Frum, whom I'm a fan of by the way, for "axis of evil" more than I do GWB. You write for a living. I wouldn't think you'd find this controversial. Seriously, what are you objecting to?
9.4.2008 9:29am
Norman Bates (mail):
Is "informed undecided" spamming the Volokh Conspiracy or is it just a lefty who's totally lost it after realizing that Palin has just won McCain the election?
9.4.2008 9:36am
Hoosier:
LM--Seriously, what are you objecting to?

Oh dear.

I'm just not going to get into this. Just read my previous post. 'The answer to your question lies within, young Skywalker.'
9.4.2008 9:46am
Smokey:
Great speech by Governor Palin. Where are all the folks that complained that she was "hiding out" - for all of two days? No doubt they wish now that she was still 'hiding out.' The more she appears in public, the more votes her ticket will get.

And the 0bama spin machine says:
"Both Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin specifically mocked Barack's experience as a community organizer..."
That's true. The reference to "community organizer" is being justifiably mocked as relevant experience to be president - as compared with, say, being Governor of a U.S. State, or putting four corrupt legislators in prison - some from the Governor's own Party. Six more are under indictment for corruption.

I'll bet a certain Congressman Jefferson, who was caught by the FBI with $90,000 in marked bills in his freezer, is sweating out this election big time, along with a few others.

Putting politicians on the take - from both parties - in prison is the kind of relevant experience that Americans like to see on a candidate's resume. Community organizer? Not so much.

Leaving aside aside 'achievements' obtained through the use of Affirmative Action, "community organizer" on Barry's resume is about all he's got. You use what you have. Of course, there's senator, too. That's legit. But how does 0 explain missing hundreds of votes? A stand-up guy doesn't refuse to take a stand in an up-or-down vote. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

And I may be entirely wrong about 0's use of AA to get where he is. To clear that up, all he has to do is release his high school transcripts, his SAT and LSAT scores, and show the world that he got into HLS on personal merit. Maybe he outscored all those bypassed Asians and others who applied, with their 4.25 GPA's. If so, prove it.

Regarding Governor Palin's call to drill for more oil, the Dems are on the losing side of this issue. Americans aren't stupid. We know that the U.S. has many billions of barrels of oil just waiting to be used, and that producing that oil will lower gas prices significantly, in addition to slowing the transfer of our wealth to OPEC.

ANWR alone - only about 3 square miles in area, has billions of barrels of easily recoverable oil. North Dakota has reserves comparable to Saudi Arabia's. Only the Democrat Party stands in the way of relieving the crushing burden they have placed on the backs of working Americans by refusing to allow production of our truly enormous reserves.

The sooner we get started producing our own oil, the better. But it won't happen under a Democrat administration.
9.4.2008 9:48am
Uh_Clem (mail):
FWIW, my $.02

Her tone of voice was whiney and the subject matter was overwhelmingly negative.

How this is supposed to attract the center or "change the tone in Washington" is beyond me. Of course, the true believers ate it up.

So, if the point was to fire up the base, give it an A+.
If the point was to turn moderates and independents into McCain voters, C- at best.
9.4.2008 10:35am
Uh_Clem (mail):
If I hear one more Democrat say that Palin's place is in the kitchen...

Names please?

The only people I've heard spreading this meme are GOP operatives whacking at a strawman.
9.4.2008 10:41am
wfjag:

Jonathan H. Adler (mail) (www):
On the teleprompter issue, it's been confirmed that there were teleprompter problems about half-way thorugh her speech, and she winged much of the second half.
See here, here, and here.

JHA


Prof. Alder's comment to Mr. Carpenter's post. http://volokh.com/posts/1220502680.shtml

So, unlike the assumption of several detractors, she wasn't merely reading a speech written by someone else.
9.4.2008 11:54am
NeoCon (mail):
Whew. I'm sure glad we found someone to counter Obama's "change" message. Hopefully we can use this puppet woman to fool the American people into voting for us even though we are the ones who've run this country into debt and caused international crisis. Maybe they'll actually believe that there are two parties: Republicans and "Maverick" Republicans.
9.4.2008 12:23pm
TruthInAdvertising:
"I want to second Hoosier and FlimFlamSam. I get a LOT of Republican e-mails. I have never seen the trash you ascribe to Republicans. If you can't give a cite (and "I got it from a former elected Republican official in my town" is NOT a cite of anything), then I have to agree completely with FlimFlamSam on this. Put up or shut up."

I'm not posting someone's email publicly even though I completely disagree with the trash that they circulate. Again, you can pretend that Republicans don't pass that crap around but I've seen it. I don't care whether you think it's real or not. It is and it's your people sending it around.
9.4.2008 12:36pm
Deoxy (mail):


If I hear one more Democrat say that Palin's place is in the kitchen...


Names please?


Every time someone say she should be "taking care of her family" instead of running, or questions if she can be VP and "take care of her kids", that's essentially what's being said. No one asks those questions of the men running (such as Obama).

Do they use the word "kitchen"? No. That doesn't make it any less offensive.

Names? Turn on the TV. Read the left half of the blogosphere. The list of names would be longer than this thread curerently is.
9.4.2008 12:52pm
whit:

Hopefully we can use this puppet woman


deluded liberal hubris. let's get real. if there is one thing that is certain, palin got where she is because of HER talent. She was not married to bill clinton, like hillary was. She won all her positions by appealing to THE PEOPLE, and she ran against a 3 time incumbent at one point. She has the highest approval rating IN THE COUNTRY among governors. Frankly, I cannot think of any woman in the US off the top of my head who has a more impressive record of achievement and no-bullshit walk to the walk life.

The married to the highschool sweetheart (tm) thing is nice, the stud athlete thing too (basketball... I like athletic wimmins), the doing it without the help of a political machine (cough... obama... cough), the willingness to go after members of her own party, the rugged individualism - moose hunting, etc. It's all there.

The thing that drives liberals NUTS is that she is UNDOUBTEDLY a "strong woman" in ways that blow away michelle obama (the left's current love), hillary, etc. but she is one with traditional values and politics on the solid right of the aisle (way to my right, fwiw). She's also smokin' hawt... note she still has her post partum chubby on. She will only get more smokin! And she's a pretty good speaker. She does not have the hillary school marm drone. Her teammates did not call her sarah barracuda for nothing. She is whip smart and she is not going to be intimidated by biden or obama. That's for sure.
9.4.2008 1:17pm
Hoosier:
Hopefully we can use this puppet woman . . .
to put on a play in the old barn and raise enough money to save the orphanage!
9.4.2008 1:41pm
Nina:
Sara Palin's Speech: The Good &Bad From a Business Person Perspective.

Good: Coachable, very well read, brilliantly scripted, I'd say she did a fantastic job of
Rallying the Republican Crowd up. Personal touch, I loved the feisty hockey
Moms analogy, a lot of women can relate to that, I can relate to her. Adorable kids.No doubt she's a great mom. Agrees with a lot of with the Obama Biden team said about Washington.

Bad: Confrontational, offers sarcasm instead of solutions. Makes it clear, She's not an approachable person, might not be a team player in any corporation. Works better as an individual if placed in the job pool. Perfect in running a State like Alaska, not a large nation. Shows good Administrative skills. I say let her get more seasoned, build up her chops in the Senate a few short years from now and I'd vote for her in a higher position. Not Executive material.

If this where a job bid and two teams came to me to offer their services and goods.
Here's the choice:

Team One: Is Innovative, fresh, get's me fired up, inspired and motivated. Is optimistic. Shows me possibilities and positive change. Lays out clearly their game plan, instead of harping about their competitors. Shows youthfulness and Maturity. Plays up Leadership material.

Team Two: Confrontational, offers me sarcasm instead of solutions. Can relate to the seniors and retirement pool but is out of touch. Uses fear-of-loss sales approach. Is defensive. Shows me they're in agreement with their competitors about the current situation. Play up emotions like being a victim. (e.g. sexism or P.O.W.) Victim material.

I'd hire the Obama and Biden Team.

Caveat, be weary of posters offensively Bashing Palin, they are trying to get you angry at the winning team and are posing as Obama Biden supporters to distract from the issues and play their team as the underdog.
9.4.2008 1:45pm
LOL:
Nina = concern troll.
9.4.2008 1:56pm
TruthInAdvertising:
"Frankly, I cannot think of any woman in the US off the top of my head who has a more impressive record of achievement and no-bullshit walk to the walk life. "

You're right, there's not one woman in the US more accomplished than Palin. None of these women would qualify?



Conservatives love to slam Oprah for her touchy-feely viewpoint. I'm sure it kills them that this single mom has built and runs a media corporation that's made her wealthy, successful and puts the so-called "executive experience" of any of the candidates on either ticket to shame. But according to some clown, the accomplishments of Winfrey and other women like her don't even register on his feeble brain. Pathetic.
9.4.2008 2:02pm
andrejsv (mail):
I was going to give her a 'very good' and then I remembered that her teleprompter malfunctioned half way thorugh and she had to ad-lib for the rest of it. I watched the whole speech and did not notice any hesitation or break in it. To have done that under the pressure she was in was 'Outstanding!!!'. I talked to a friend a work (democrat) and he was commenting that she came across as too 'mean'. Jeez! after the way she was dismissed and crucified wouldn't you come out swinging? (granted that the speech was prepared for her). It bothers me the thin-skininness of the Democratic side, which puts her in a quandry, if she doesn't attack McCain looses, but if she attacks then undecided democrats, needed by the republican side to win the election will be put off by her. Arghhhh!
So attacking Obama for his friendship with terrorists like Ayers is off limits? Frankly I would rather expose Obama and loose the election than tip toe around him and loose anyway.
9.4.2008 2:02pm
Hoosier:
TruthInAdvertising

Oprah is a mom? Where'd you get that?

(I suspect you are just envious because we have the VPILF.)
9.4.2008 2:29pm
Hoosier:
Bumper sticker I'd make if I were not so lazy:

"Out with the BDS/In with the VPILF"
9.4.2008 2:39pm
Uh_Clem (mail):
Names? Turn on the TV. Read the left half of the blogosphere. The list of names would be longer than this thread curerently is.


If that's the case then surely you can come up with an example or two. Maybe someone that I've actually heard of.

Cite, please?
9.4.2008 4:18pm
LM (mail):
Hoosier,

Because "Liberal Surrender Monkey" is my middle name, I'm going to keep giving you the benefit of the doubt you have a bona fide criticism, even though you won't give me the benefit of the doubt that I don't know what it is. So, left to speculate, I'm guessing you think I was being snarky by saying I'd be impressed if Palin had written her speech. I wasn't.

I hate that politicians use speech writers at all. That it's become so ubiquitous seems consistent with our descent into dumbed down, made for TV politics, though I recognize there are also more legitimate reasons. Anyway, I don't think we should be sanguine about assigning more importance to a politician's ability to deliver telegenic sound bites than to his/her ability to conceive, formulate and write the script. I'm not saying a politician can't do the first two and assign the third. But it's certainly harder for us to know who's doing the first two when we know s/he isn't doing the third.

The only political speech I can recall commenting on before last night was Obama's race speech, which I've never heard Obama deliver. I prefer reading the transcript without the distraction of oration. When I say I'm impressed by that speech, the only thing I can possibly mean is I'm impressed with the conception and the writing, not the delivery.

Likewise, when I say I'd be impressed if Sarah Palin wrote her speech, I mean I'd be impressed if Sarah Palin wrote her speech. I object to a lot of what's in it, but I think it was well conceived, crafted and delivered. To my knowledge, Palin was responsible mainly for the delivery, and she hit a home run. I don't fault her for giving speeches other people write. That's the norm, and it's the norm I fault. I do appreciate that Obama's the exception, but I don't claim being able to write a great speech is a requirement of being a great President.

That's much rambling to say not much more than I said in the first place. Though I'm obviously biased for Obama, I think the assessment is fair. That said, I'm not sure why it would be beneath me or anyone else to take a less fair, overtly partisan (but civil) posture. Anyway, it's all I've got, so if you have a beef, now's the time to be out with it. Because when I do get beneath myself, the ontologically challenged are fair game. Shambling, shmambling.
9.4.2008 4:40pm
Hoosier:
So, left to speculate, I'm guessing you think I was being snarky by saying I'd be impressed if Palin had written her speech. I wasn't.

I did.

But if that is not what you meant, than I am sorry for misunderstanding.

You will admiot however, since you are a "Surrender Monkey", that this is a "meme" that went out from Obama supporters the moment they realized how well it was selling. Right? So there was reason to think that your comment was in that vein?

But, LM, *I* have never used the phrase "Lberal Surrender Monkey." I think I said "Cheese-Eating . . ."

I, too, was a surrender monkey, since I very much wanted Bush and co. to avoid war in Iraq. And I like cheese a lot.

But Obama writing his own speeches is not credible to many of us. Why does he have speechwriters? And given what you said, and the clear implication that his speeches are a team effort, I'm unsure what his appeal would be.

Because when I do get beneath myself, the ontologically challenged are fair game. Shambling, shmambling.

YOU BASTARD!
9.4.2008 4:57pm
LM (mail):

You will admiot however, since you are a "Surrender Monkey", that this is a "meme" that went out from Obama supporters the moment they realized how well it was selling. Right? So there was reason to think that your comment was in that vein?

The first place I became aware of it was here, and by that time it was already in flames. So I don't know, but I take your word for it.

But Obama writing his own speeches is not credible to many of us. Why does he have speechwriters? And given what you said, and the clear implication that his speeches are a team effort, I'm unsure what his appeal would be.

I have no direct knowledge, but I'd assume some are written by others, some are collaborative efforts, and some, like the race speech, he insists on doing alone. His convention speech sounded to me like a collaborative piece, but I don't have any evidence for that beyond my impression that it didn't sound entirely of the same voice. If I get a chance I'll read it, but more likely I'll lose interest first.

YOU BASTARD!

Don't forget it. Plus, you know what happens if you corner a surrender monkey....
9.4.2008 6:10pm
wfjag:

If this where a job bid and two teams came to me to offer their services and goods.
Here's the choice:

Team One: Is Innovative, fresh, get's me fired up, inspired and motivated. Is optimistic. Shows me possibilities and positive change. Lays out clearly their game plan, instead of harping about their competitors. [Such as "Four more years of the same"]. Shows youthfulness and Maturity. Plays up Leadership material. [Shows that both members of the team have had leadership positions in which they successfully performed. 22 years as active duty officer, who turned around the performance of the US Navy's largest squadron; Family business, Mayor and Governor. Has actually made a payroll and had business partners].

Team Two: Confrontational, offers me sarcasm instead of solutions. [Mispronounces name of town opponent was Mayor of to rhyme with "Silly". Put-down of small town experience and ignores opponents' leadership positions and experiences, e.g., successful professional military officer of one and most popular Governor in the US by other]. Can relate to the seniors and retirement pool but is out of touch. [Going to "fix" social security, but in 4 years in Senate by one and 35 years in Senate by other, have never proposed a solution. Appears to endorse raising payroll taxes, which every revenue projection shows will far short of raising amounts necessary. Categorical rejection of even partial privitization, even as option for younger workers, leaving only options of cutting benefits or cutting other programs and transferring money from them. However, unwilling to acknowledge the economic realities of the team's proposals]. Uses fear-of-loss sales approach. [e.g., Social Security is bankrupt, must raise taxes or your retirement security is lost.] Is defensive. [Will not acknowledge any success by "the surge" or that opponent was correct when he supported it, although that was a highly unpopular position to take.] Shows me they're in agreement with their competitors about the current situation. Play up emotions like being a victim. (e.g. sexism or P.O.W. racism) Victim material. [Have spouse make speeches about policy issues and then complain because spouse and spouse's statements become campaign issues].

I'd hire the Obama and Biden Team McCain and Palin Team.


Sorry, Nina, but if you cut through the rhetoric of a sympathetic press, using your standards and applying them to facts, a decision opposite to yours is required.

While BHO is superior to generating sound bites, he has not offered a real solution to any issue. As an example, he says that in 10 years he will end US imports of petroleum, by use of unidentified "alternative" and "renewable" fuels, which he will fund with a $150 Billion fund over that time. The assertion flies in the face of reality. First, the half-life of the US car and truck fleets is 9 to 10 years. Ergo, if this unidentified fuel(s) and technology were available tomorrow and only cars and trucks using it were sold thereafter, in 10 years about 1/2 of the cars would still be powered by gasoline and 1/2 of the trucks and buses would still be powered by diesel. Accordingly, even under this impossibly optimistic scenerio, there would still be substantial imports of petroleum after 10 years. Further, the most efficient means of transport of goods are rail and ship, but those also use petroleum based fuels. Also, aircraft use petroleum based fuels. There are no substitute or replacement fuels or technology for those means of transport proposed. Second, $15 Billion per year ($150 Billion divided by 10) is less than the amounts the Bush administration is putting into research for alternative and renewable fuels. I assume that Obama/Biden intend that to be $15 Billion per year in addition to what is already being spent. Still, given the size of the federal budget and US GDP, that isn't really that much money. The main result of Bush administration efforts has been massive increases in a mandate for corn ethanol fuel -- which is the result of a legal mandate and not research -- the benefits of which are dubious. Third, to being a technology of fuel into general use on a national scale within 10 years, as proposed by Obama/Biden, it needs to be at least in the large bench-test, or commercial or industial demonstration project stage of development. Accordingly, Obama/Biden should be able to point to it. They have not. Moreover, any fuel or technology that promising will not need any government funding or legal mandate to use. Rather, those dirty profit-driven scoundrel investment bankers and Wall Street types will be showing up will lots of money to invest. Simply put, this "proposal" by the Obama/Biden Team looks more like "just words" than reality.

Unfortunately, nearly all of the Obama/Biden Team proposals look like that (i.e. "Windfall Oil Tax" -- tried by the Carter administration, and was a complete disaster; Raising taxes as a way to stimulate the economy -- it's Econ 101, 1st week material, that raising taxes takes money out of the economy and reduces economic activity. The tax cuts of JFK, Reagan and GW Bush stimulated economic activity and resulted in lowering of unemployment. The allegations that the Bush administration economic policies harmed the US economy are not well supported. Until the Dems took control of Congress, the unemployment rate was 4.9%, well below historic rates and the Clinton years. The current unemployment rate is about the same as during the Clinton years. Before the Dems took control of Congress, wages were generally at least keeping pace with inflation. Since then, they have not. The Obama/Biden economic/tax proposals -- which are fairly vague -- do not appear well thought-out, and to the extent they are presented in sufficient detail, do not appear consistent with basic economics theories or successful historical examples.).

While the rhetoric of "change" and "hope" is appealing, rhetoric is not reality. However, the team chosen must deal with reality.
9.4.2008 6:20pm
TruthInAdvertising:
"Oprah is a mom? Where'd you get that?"

She lost her premature son so she was a mom but the way I stated it implies that she has a child still, which is not the case. My goof.
9.4.2008 6:57pm
TruthInAdvertising:
Nope, we don't have Republicans using racially-charged words to attack Obama.
9.4.2008 7:18pm
Hanifah Yoong (mail):
I'm from Malaysia. I watched her speech. Her demeanour struck me as her being a lady who can be very personal and vindictive. Her razor cut stare and thin upper lip masked by her deceiving cloaked sweet smile don't make me feel comfortable with her ability to make correct decisions during crucial times which really requires her to be unemotional. Besides that, her very limited experience of travelling abroad petrifies me to wonder how she can understand the peoples of the world with such diversed culture and history. She was watched by more viewers than Obama as many were more curious to see her perform on stage rather than wanting to hear her speech like all those who watched Obama's acceptance speech. I think although she has lifted McCain's fight by a couple of points for now, she will erode support for McCain in the longer run.
9.4.2008 7:56pm
Hoosier:
TruthInAdvertising:

You spoke ominously of "conservative circles." Now you have an unsourced email and one word with connotations from one state rep in one state? Do you doubt that anyone so disposed could come up with the same from a Democrat? Or something that sounded like treason? Or anti-military?

Let's not post the sort of sarcastic comment that you posted at 6:18 when you have so little to go on. Was the sarcasm directed at us conservative VC-types meant to imply that we knew, or OUGHT to have known, about this statement by thos rep? You can't possibly think that we did. So why the toat tone?

I don't understand this whole line coming from you today.
9.4.2008 8:52pm
Hoosier:
Note to self: Malaysians make decisions about national leaders based on thickness of upper lip? (ToDo: Check this with Pat in PoliSci; not sure this is correct.)
9.4.2008 8:54pm
uh_clem (mail):
Cite, please?

Why am I not surprised that Deoxy is incapable of giving even one example?

The fact is, the argument that she should be taking care of her family instead of running for VP is a strawman argument.

Yes it's ridiculous and sexist. And the only people bringing it up are Palin supporters who accuse mythical opponents of making that argument. At least as far as I've seen. Maybe there's somebody somewhere actually pushing that line, but I haven't seen it.

Cites, anyone?
9.5.2008 12:03am
Smokey:
LM:
Plus, you know what happens if you corner a surrender monkey....
You get free cheese?
9.5.2008 12:18am
LM (mail):
Smokey,

... and whine.
9.5.2008 5:15pm
the informed undecided (mail):
no i wasn't trying to spam... just showing the lies that they send out... n why m i still on the mailing list.... just so i can see what they're doing.... like that mentality of

"Keeping friends close, but keeping enemies closer."
9.7.2008 2:11am