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"Japan's New Professional Seducers":

From the Times (London):

This woman leads a double life. Her boyfriend thinks she's a secretary. In fact she is one of Japan's new breed of professional seducers, hired by embittered spouses to entrap their straying partners. And she'll stop at nothing to get the desired results.

VincentPaul (mail):
So she's a Democrat?
9.2.2008 8:43pm
nick:
Before no-fault divorce we had some professional seducers in the West. I recall a comedy plot in an Astaire-Rogers film (The Gay Divorcee?) that involved the Rogers character hiring a pseudo-suave Italian gentleman to act like he was seducing her so that she could get a divorce, but (spoiler warning) the operation ends up nearly scaring off her love interest/dancing partner (guess who) rather than her husband.
9.2.2008 8:50pm
mad the swine (mail):
The different between Japan and America is, quite simply, Christ.

Since Perry sent his black ships sailing into Tokyo Bay, Japan has tried to copy Western culture and technology and morals and personal liberties and human rights without also accepting the One Who laid the foundations for all of the above. The result is that the United States, which was founded on the explicit endorsement of Christianity, is a shining city on a hill and a beacon of morality, while Japan, where the majority of citizens are atheists, is best known for underage girls being molested by tentacles.

Your call.
9.2.2008 8:54pm
Waldensian (mail):

The result is that the United States, which was founded on the explicit endorsement of Christianity,

I must have missed that portion of the First Amendment. Cite?

I'm also trying to figure out at what the Japanese decided to copy Western personal liberties and human rights. Was this before or after WWII?
9.2.2008 9:00pm
Waldensian (mail):
"at what POINT the Japanese...."

Preview is my friend. Preview is my friend.
9.2.2008 9:01pm
Waldensian (mail):

So she's a Democrat?

Ah, Vincent Paul, it is actually apparent that she must be Republican. Hint: research "Project SAPPHIRE"
9.2.2008 9:07pm
astrangerwithcandy (mail):
one of the stories linked to on the article's side bar...

a little gutter, but the heart wants what the heart wants
9.2.2008 9:11pm
loki13 (mail):
Vincent Paul,

I would guess *she* is a democrat. You'd need a male professional seducer to get those GOP men. Bonus for toe tappin'.

*ducks*

Is it November yet? Please.
9.2.2008 9:16pm
Dave N (mail):
Is it November yet? Please.
Unfortunately, no.
9.2.2008 9:23pm
John (mail):
"Professional seducer"? Isn't there a shorter word for this? (not Democrat)
9.2.2008 9:25pm
krs:
fascinating
9.2.2008 9:29pm
astrangerwithcandy (mail):


"Professional seducer"? Isn't there a shorter word for this? (not Democrat)


not one that doesn't offend the blog comment policy
9.2.2008 9:29pm
Nunzio:
Didn't the National Enquirer use one of these to entrap Frank Gifford so as to shame his rather-annoyingly-wholesome wife Kathi Lee?
9.2.2008 9:38pm
theobromophile (www):
Despite my undying love of capitalism and the free market, I feel dirty after reading that article. Thanks, EV.....
9.2.2008 9:49pm
Waldensian (mail):

not one that doesn't offend the blog comment policy

Like anybody is worrying about THAT lately....
9.2.2008 9:52pm
Crafty Hunter (www):
I think the shorter word for which you're searching is "politician". Oh, wait ... that's a slightly different specialty within the same profession. Never mind.
9.2.2008 10:05pm
mac (mail) (www):
Michelle Malkin? She would have to pay me first though.
9.2.2008 10:35pm
Malvolio:
What bothers me is how little money she makes. She's having sex with several unappealing men (unappealing enough, at least, that their wives engage in a complicated and expensive conspiracy to get rid of them) each week, and doesn't even make $100,000 a year. Sad, just sad.
9.2.2008 10:41pm
Daniel Chapman (mail):
There's something almost Freudian about how she attracts that sort of insult from liberals...
9.2.2008 10:42pm
TerrencePhilip:
Malvolio, the story says "She can earn up to £5,000 a month" when counting her bonuses- if she made that every month that's over $100K/year in US dollars. I have no idea what kind of standard of living that would buy in Japan.
9.2.2008 10:57pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
mad the swine,

You appear to know as little about Japan as you do about American history. Do you really think that one can evaluate the moral quality of a country on the basis of nothing but the existence of such services?
9.2.2008 11:08pm
ReaderY:
Consent is a defense to a criminal conversation tort in North Carolina. But only if it's identified before judgement. In Ward v. Beaton, 141 NC App 44 (2000), the North Carolina Court of Appeals upheld a alienation of affections/criminal conversation verdict by a wife against a neighbor despite the fact that the only evidence an affair ever occurred came from the husband, and despite evidence suggesting collusion including the fact that the couple told the divorce court they had reconciled immediately after the verdict in the adultery case.

The dissent argued that evidence of collusion should justify a new trial.
9.2.2008 11:13pm
ReaderY:
The case suggests that in the United States, there may be places where the exact reverse situation occurs -- a for-profit arrangement in which a spouse seduces a non-spouse in order to permit the other spouse to accuse the non-spouse of an affair as part of a faked divorce and adultery accusation and to generate outrage against the non-spouse, resulting, after the hooplah dies down, in a transfer of a substantial amount of money from the non-spouse to the spouses.
9.2.2008 11:17pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
ReaderY,

Is alienation of affection even available as a cause of action in most states? I have the impression that North Carolina is a relic in this respect.
9.2.2008 11:53pm
Big Bill (mail):
"Do you really think that one can evaluate the moral quality of a country on the basis of nothing but the existence of such services?"

OK, how about this service: coin operated machines on Japanese streets that vend used underpants worn by schoolgirls. Think of (1) the men who buy them, (2) the citizens, male and female, who walk by them and do nothing to the machines, and (3) the schoolgirls who actually sell their underwear to stock the machines.

That ought to give you a bit more information to work with.
9.2.2008 11:58pm
ReaderY:
It's available in 8 states, Hawaii, Illinois, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Mississippi, New Mexico, South Dakota, and Utah
9.3.2008 12:22am
ReaderY:
A key thing that makes North Carolina different is the rather free way it allows damages. Compensatory damages include pain and suffering. In addition adultery has been held to automatically justify punitive damages, and very large damage verdicts have been upheld. As a result, prospective plaintiffs know that any given lawsuit has a chance of resulting in large awards, and several well-publicized cases in the last decade resulted in awards of over a million. A second issue is the liberal evidence and jurisdiction rules. North Carolina claims jurisdiction over out-of-state residents if any part of the affair was conducted in North Carolina, including, in a recent case, sending or receiving affair-related emails.

In Illinois, on the other hand, damages are for financial losses only, and emotional damages are disallowed. As a result, awards are much smaller. Lawsuits are fewer. Although there have been states where these lawsuits have existed "on the books" only, my impression is that there has been something of a revival and states that permit the tort have seen at least a few lawsuits, although not necessarily the 200 or so a year filed in North Carolina.
9.3.2008 12:36am
TokyoTom (mail):
Hooray for free markets!

Gene, just what are you doing with the intertubes that you come up with stories like this, anyway?
9.3.2008 12:43am
Rosooki:
Big Bill, You are so right.

Japan desperately needs America's conservative right to teach them how to live and raise their children. It is our strong morals and focus on the family that make us so great among nations. It is because of our clear moral superiority that we have no crime, no violence, almost zero drugs, and no teenage pregnancy to speak of. Our excellent moral upbringing and support from our strong extended families leads almost everyone to graduate from high school and go on to important and fulfilling careers. Our ability to trust in our enlightened convictions (revelations) makes us the envy of the world.

Japan wouldn't have all those social problems and horrible grinding inequality if only the people had some moral bearings. And dang it, they might even be able to have a decent savings rate like ours.
9.3.2008 12:56am
Bill Poser (mail) (www):

OK, how about this service: coin operated machines on Japanese streets that vend used underpants worn by schoolgirls. Think of (1) the men who buy them, (2) the citizens, male and female, who walk by them and do nothing to the machines, and (3) the schoolgirls who actually sell their underwear to stock the machines.

That ought to give you a bit more information to work with.



I myself have plenty of information to work with. I have lived and worked in Japan, speak Japanese, have many Japanese friends, and am quite familiar with Japanese culture and history. What I wonder is how anyone equipped only with little tidbits like this is in a position to make an overall evaluation of the culture.

Now, granted that selling schoolgirls used underpants from vending machines is rather seedy, what does it tell us about the culture? Do you think that it means that this fetish is socially condoned? Far from it. The men who buy them are hardly considered respectable. That's one reason they're sold from vending machines, so that the men who buy them need not interact with a human being. (Japanese also make more extensive use of vending machines than Americans do. They not only sell a wider range of food and drink from vending machines (including beer), they sell such things as batteries from vending machines.) What is the social impact of selling schoolgirls' underpants? Arguably, it satisfies this fetish in a way that eliminates the need for contact between the men with the fetish and the girls, with the prospect of abuse of the girls. In other words, on balance, it is arguably a social good given that it isn't possible to eliminate the fetish.

Not far from the machines with the panties, you may well find a small statue known as a jizoo, which portrays the Ksitigarbha bodhisattva, the guardian of souls in hell, the protector of travelers and small children, among others. For anxious children, lost or weary travelers, and others, the jizoo offer perhaps a measure of reassurance and consolation. There is nothing comparable in the United States. Shall we conclude that Japan is a superior culture?
9.3.2008 1:05am
Jerry F:
Mad the Swine:

"The result is that the United States, which was founded on the explicit endorsement of Christianity, is a shining city on a hill and a beacon of morality, while Japan, where the majority of citizens are atheists, is best known for underage girls being molested by tentacles."

I assume you are being sarcastic, in which case, what is your explanation as to why the sort of thing mentioned in the article does not happen here in the United States? If it has nothing to do with religious values, why then are there no seduction firms in the United States?

Sure, it must be a pure coincidence, just like it was also a pure coincidence that led hundreds of prostitutes to travel to Denver during the days of the Democrat Convention. These things cannot at all be helpful to understand larger trends.
9.3.2008 1:08am
Obvious (mail):
I have a new fantasy that involves mistaken identity...
9.3.2008 1:11am
Ricardo (mail):
Rooski did a pretty good job of a smack-down: I can only add that I live in the Philippines -- a place where the overwhelming majority of citizens are not only practicing Christians but take Christianity much more seriously than Americans do on average. This religiosity has most certainly not stopped the spread of shady-looking "massage parlors" and "karaoke bars" as well as the large groups of women standing on the side of the street of every major and most minor cities offering themselves up for a pittance.

And the problems are no better or worse than in neighboring Buddhist countries. Religion has nothing to do with it.
9.3.2008 1:12am
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
Big Bill:

By the way, you shouldn't assume that all or even most of the panties sold as having been worn by schoolgirls actually have been. Some have, but there is ample opportunity for fraud here.
9.3.2008 1:16am
Bill Poser (mail) (www):

I assume you are being sarcastic, in which case, what is your explanation as to why the sort of thing mentioned in the article does not happen here in the United States? If it has nothing to do with religious values, why then are there no seduction firms in the United States?


Differences in divorce laws play a role. Japan does not have no-fault divorce. "Irreconcilable differences" is not grounds for divorce. Hence, the woman has motivation to get the goods on her spouse.

Another factor is probably the relative ease of obtaining privacy during an affair. In the US, a person in this situation would likely hire a private investigator. That is theoretically possible in Japan, too, but I suspect that it is harder for a PI to obtain the desired information because Japan caters to couples desiring privacy for sex. A PI probably couldn't get access to a "love hotel" in order to film.
9.3.2008 1:45am
Julian S. (mail):
Malvolio - well, if it helps elevate you're opinion of the young woman, at today's exchange rate, she'd could be making $107,117.00 USD. Of course, that's assuming she's making $5,000 GBP per month - which the story said she can "make up to . . .". She'd have to earn a whole lot of bonuses.
9.3.2008 1:55am
Cornellian (mail):
OK, how about this service: coin operated machines on Japanese streets that vend used underpants worn by schoolgirls.

Definitely a "Lost in Translation" moment.
9.3.2008 2:00am
WF (mail):
Bill Poser, I did a quick search on Google(in English), and it seems that it's not clear if the soiled panties vending machines exist at all. Can you clear that up?
9.3.2008 2:00am
Rosooki:
They exist. The package can contain a picture of the girl who wore them too. It is a business - she'll put them on for the picture, take them off, put them in the can, then do another set.

If it involves sex and you can't imagine it - it is going on in Japan.
9.3.2008 2:15am
Careless:
Is it really the case that no one here has heard about the American equivalent of these women? They've gotten decent coverage in the past few years. And no, they're not supposed to have sex with the men.
9.3.2008 2:29am
Brian G (mail) (www):

It's available in 8 states, Hawaii, Illinois, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Mississippi, New Mexico, South Dakota, and Utah


I don't think that is the case anymore in New Mexico. I recall reading a case where alenation of affection tort was no longer recognized. I'll do the research and get back to you.

The moral in the meantime: Don't always trust AmJur or ALR.
9.3.2008 2:44am
WF (mail):
Rosooki, can you tell me how you know they exist? Have you seen one? (please don't take this the wrong way, I really don't mean to offend -- I'm just curious, and obviously just a random person on the internet asserting they exist isn't all that interesting)
9.3.2008 2:45am
Oren:
This is no different that the legal shenanigans that took place on a regular basis right here in the states before no-fault divorce. Although, as I understand it, usually both husband and wife would be in on the fraud (although why one needs to defraud the government in order to dissolve a voluntary arrangement between two free people both of whom want out is still puzzling).

This is the same thing, but without the social tact of a collusion between attorneys.
9.3.2008 3:12am
Cheggue:
I lived in Tokyo in 2001-2002, and there was a bank of vending machines next to my apartment. One of them did sell used schoolgirl underwear, so yes, those machines exist. The cost at the time was about 3000 yen/piece. This is not because I was interested in using that particular machine, but because it was located uncomfortably close to the Coke machine.

The professional seducers (wakaresaseya) are not just to get divorces. Sometimes even unmarried partners will use them because they are so fearful of direct confrontation with the partner they want to get rid of.
9.3.2008 8:31am
Brian Macker (mail) (www):
So in the meantime the wife has used common property assets to buy prostitution services for her husband. Plus she has conspired to alienate the affection of her husband. Who is she going to sue, herself?
9.3.2008 9:28am
Dan Weber (www):
Plus she has conspired to alienate the affection of her husband. Who is she going to sue, herself?

Ah, the beauty of comparative responsibility. If she and a third-party each cause 50% of damages to herself, she can sue for that 50%.

But North Carolina, last I heard, was still using contributory responsibility. IANAL.
9.3.2008 11:59am
Brian G (mail) (www):
For New Mexico law, see Padwa v. Hadley, 1999 NMCA 67, 127 N.M. 416, 981 P.2d 1234.

Some excerpts:

- As a general rule, engaging in consensual sexual relations, even with another's spouse, does not rise to the level of extreme and outrageous conduct that justifies an action in tort. An exception arises when a defendant owes a plaintiff an independent duty of care, such as when that defendant also has a special relationship with the plaintiff.

- Certain sexual conduct and interpersonal decisions are, on public policy grounds, outside the realm of tort liability.
9.3.2008 1:45pm
Caliban Darklock (www):
WRT the vending machines for girls' panties... when I was in Japan briefly during my time in the military, my team saw these machines in the airport. Galloway was convinced it was a scam, so on a dare, he went to the machine and bought a pair. We collectively determined they were indeed a very small pair of panties that had been worn for some period of time by someone female. Galloway immediately became convinced he would get caught with them when we returned to base, then be branded a pervert and kicked out of the Air Force. As we walked past a garbage can, Scotts grabbed the panties from Galloway's pocket and threw them away, ending the danger.

There are many details to this story which are best related in person over a case of beer with much laughing and merriment.

As far as the moral character of a society that has such things, there is absolutely no mention in the bible of looking at or otherwise employing a woman's underpants when the woman is not in them, so I fail to see how it can be immoral.

To preemptively address the anticipated response, I believe Jesus has been taken out of context on the subject of adultery. By Jewish law, sex is a marital right of the woman - not the man. In Jesus' time, husbands who did not receive sufficient service from their wives commonly sought the services of prostitutes, which was not viewed as adulterous conduct. It is to this practice that Jesus referred when he spoke of "looking at a woman to lust after her"; not the simple act of looking at any woman whatsoever, but the specific act of seeking a prostitute. I don't believe there is any particular dispute about whether seeking a prostitute is adulterous (it is), or about whether underpants are a prostitute (they're not).
9.3.2008 2:34pm
WF (mail):
thanks everyone for the stories
9.3.2008 4:41pm
Jerome Cole (mail) (www):
I am currently living in China and I have also traveled to Japan. Unfortunately, notions of romantic love, monogamy, fair play, loyalty to one's spouse etc. are rapidly disappearing here. Most men (In cities. People in rural areas are still really traditional and great to be around.) here are unfaithful and many women are as well. Even if no adultery is going on marriage is still just usually a tool used to appease your parents, gain some kind of pecuniary advantage, or increase social status. It's all about sex, money, and status. Caring for others, honesty, and respect for marriage seem to have all been thrown out the window. If you read the article you will also get an idea of the bizarre, rube goldberg schemes many East Asians hatch up to get what they want. These are not simple people.
9.3.2008 5:33pm
Jerome Cole (mail) (www):
"Plus she has conspired to alienate the affection of her husband. Who is she going to sue, herself?

Ah, the beauty of comparative responsibility. If she and a third-party each cause 50% of damages to herself, she can sue for that 50%.

But North Carolina, last I heard, was still using contributory responsibility. IANAL."

Japan is not a common law jurisdiction. It is a civil law country. I doubt that they have any such thing as contributory responsibility.
9.3.2008 5:39pm
Jerome Cole (mail) (www):
"Plus she has conspired to alienate the affection of her husband. Who is she going to sue, herself?

Ah, the beauty of comparative responsibility. If she and a third-party each cause 50% of damages to herself, she can sue for that 50%.

But North Carolina, last I heard, was still using contributory responsibility. IANAL."

Japan is not a common law jurisdiction. It is a civil law country. I doubt that they have any such thing as contributory responsibility.
9.3.2008 5:39pm
Helene Edwards (mail):
Well, WRT all this Japan stuff, my neighbor, an Egyptian kid and an 8th grader at a public junior high in the East Bay, tells me that the black girls give hummers for $25. And their culture is more Christian than the U.S. overall, right?
9.3.2008 5:51pm
ReaderY:
In North Carolina, collusion is a clear defense to the alienation of affections and criminal conversation torts. Open collusion would definitely result in a loss of the suit had the defendant been able to find out about it and raise the issue in time. What Ward held was an important procedural point, that is an affirmative defense which must be pled in the answer to the complaint or be forever waived.

In this case, the suit was filed at the same time as the divorce, and hence there was no indication at the time the complaint was filed that collusion was involved. Because the defendant didn't bring up the defense of collusion in the answer, she lost her chance. Everything that happened afterwards -- the spouses ignoring various divorce court orders and excusing each other when the judge noticed, the reconciliation immediately after the alienation of affections verdict -- was therefore simply irrelevant.

It's entirely possible that there was no fraud on the court. Because collusion is an affirmative defense that must be pled to be raised and is waived if not pled, once it was waived the wife was never obligated to say whether she was OK with what the husband did or not. She could truthfully testify in a way that would establish all the elements of the tort and justify punitive damages without mentioning this detail. Doubtless her lawyer encouraged her to avoid saying anything about this issue unless directly asked.

Ward suggests that defense lawyers might want, if they can, to plead the affirmative defense of consent whenever they can in order to preserve their ability to address the issue in the hopes evidence might develop later.
9.3.2008 7:55pm