pageok
pageok
pageok
Palin and Buchanan, II ("Timeline"):

July 17, 1999: AP reports on Pat Buchanan visit to Wasilla, AK. The reporter notes that "among those sporting Buchanan buttons were Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin and state Sen. Jerry Ward, R-Anchorage."

July 26, 1999, letter to the editor of the Anchorage Daily News by Sarah Palin:

As mayor of Wasilla, I am proud to welcome all presidential candidates to our city. This is true regardless of their party, or the latest odds of their winning. When presidential candidates visit our community, I am always happy to meet them. I'll even put on their button when handed one as a polite gesture of respect.

Though no reporter interviewed me for the Associated Press article on the recent visit by a presidential candidate (Metro, July 17), the article may have left your readers with the perception that I am endorsing this candidate, as opposed to welcoming his visit to Wasilla. As mayor, I will welcome all the candidates in Wasilla.

August 7, 1999: AP reports on Steve Forbes' campaign in Alaska. "Joining the Fairbanks Republican on the leadership committee will be Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin, and former state GOP chairman Pete Hallgren, who will serve as co-chairs."

This information is all available on Lexis. Anyone who continues to push the "Sarah Palin supported Pat Buchanan in 2000" line is either willfully ignorant or lying. And there is no evidence thus far except a recollection from Pat Buchanan, contradicted by his sister and campaign manager (see previous post), that she supported him in 1995.

Malvolio:
Any Palin partisan would at this moment be saying to Bernstein, "Ssshhhh!" Let her opponent waste their effort and air-time with this pointless patent nonsense. As Napoleon said, "Never interrupt your opponent when he is making a mistake."

Remember 2004? The Left spent a tremendous amount of energy defending the obviously forged Killian documents -- and ended up bolstering Bush's election.

This time, the underlying offense (supporting that nut Buchanan) is much less serious, barely rising to faux pas, and the evidence is even thinner (one ambiguous photo and a self-serving statement from the nut himself).

A better avenue (I know, ssshhh) would be to focus on TrooperGate II -- someone in Palin's office called up the Alaska Department of Public Safety and tried to get Palin's sister's ex-husband kicked out of the state police.

Palin's only answer is the Henry II Defense: that an overzealous underlying exceeded his instructions. That didn't work for King Henry, it probably won't work for her, making her look dishonest or weak or both.
8.31.2008 11:38am
quixoticneophyte:
Malvolio,

It's still the wildcard, but I don't think that the whole state trooper issue is going to really change anyone's opinion of Gov. Palin. Who wants to side with a trooper who drinks on the job, tasered his 11 year old stepson, and threatened to put a "f---ing" bullet into Palin's father???
8.31.2008 12:09pm
Prosecutorial Indiscretion:
Who wants to side with a trooper who drinks on the job, tasered his 11 year old stepson, and threatened to put a "f---ing" bullet into Palin's father???

"Progressives," apparently. The reality of Sarah Palin is so far from the outrageous attacks excitable hacks have made up that as the public continues to get to know her, her detractors will lose substantial credibility. The Left has by and large grossly mishandled their response to her candidacy, much as I suspect the McCain campaign expected it to, and their patent overreaction is going to mitigate future attacks on the McCain-Palin ticket.
8.31.2008 12:16pm
Hoosier:
quixoticneophyte

Well, jukebox on this blog, for one, said that the whole taser-thing was overblown. See, the biy *asked* to be tasered.

And a responsible dad does what his kids want. Even if it could harm them, it would appear.

This is just priceless. Trying to tie McCain's ticket to Pat Buchanan. The sound I hear is wheels spinning, with no hope of gaining traction.
8.31.2008 12:26pm
obi juan (mail):
Except for a recollection by Buchanan? That would seem to be a fairly large exception. Except for the witness to the crime you have nothing!
8.31.2008 12:39pm
Cory J (mail):
The latest/upcoming attack on Palin is that she lied about her recent pregnancy. That claim is now the top story on Digg.
8.31.2008 12:41pm
OrinKerr:
obi juan,

Do you consider Pat Buchanan a credible source?
8.31.2008 12:57pm
p3731 (mail):
No one cares about the dumb Buchanan thing.

Everyone cares about her hard-Right positions on the issues and her complete lack of qualifications.

The End.
8.31.2008 12:59pm
Dave N (mail):
obi juan,

Bay Buchanan denies it. The FCC records contradict Buchanan's assertions. Palin's immediate letter to the editor and later membership on a Forbes' steering committee would contradict it.

Oh, and an earlier commenter on the other thread said (probably snarkily) that Buchanan would remember even a $50 contribution because he got so few of them. The FCC reports that in the 1999-2000 cycle, Buchanan raised $44,000,000. So yes, I find it highly improbable that Buchanan would actually remember Sarah Palin at all.

(as a side note, how many posters in the last few days are new to the VC? I am seeing quite a bit of spin from people whose nom de blog are unfamiliar)
8.31.2008 1:00pm
Malvolio:
(as a side note, how many posters in the last few days are new to the VC? I am seeing quite a bit of spin from people whose nom de blog are unfamiliar)
During the Killian thing, I signed on to the Democratic Underground just to say, in effect, "Hey guys, when the documents are finally exposes as forgeries -- which will happen -- people will think Bush himself has been vindicated." I was reviled for a few hours and then my post removed (apparently DU has a busy memory-hole function). I wonder if anybody there now thinks, "Maybe we should have listened to that guy..."
8.31.2008 1:09pm
Cara:
Contradicts? Bay's recollection isn't even inconsistent with Pats; this hearsy is, at most, non-confirming. Come on.
8.31.2008 1:09pm
Bruce Hayden (mail) (www):
nom de blog
Love it. Did you come up with this, or find it somewhere else?
8.31.2008 1:14pm
FlimFlamSam:
I supported Pat Buchanan in 1996. What the hell is wrong with that? At the time, he was a pretty standard conservative with Ross Perot-ian views on trade.
8.31.2008 1:14pm
Prosecutorial Indiscretion:
Except for the witness to the crime you have nothing!

Have you ever tried a one-witness case? :P
8.31.2008 1:31pm
obi juan (mail):
FlimFlamSam, nothing is wrong with it per se. Over the years people on the right in conjunction with people on the left have had great fun tag teaming Pat Buchanan to the point where association with Buchanan makes one radioactive. Calling one a Buchananite is an example of pre-911 thinking. Get with the times, Buchananites are "unpatriotic conservatives" as a National Review cover story exposed them as.
8.31.2008 1:48pm
corneille1640 (mail):

Anyone who continues to push the "Sarah Palin supported Pat Buchanan in 2000" line is either willfully ignorant or lying.

Not exactly. One might just interpret the evidence differently: maybe Palin was lying in her letter to the editor. Maybe she didn't support Buchanan in 1999 when she wrote the letter, but supported him in 2000 (although I'm aware of no evidence of a change of heart).

I don't think she was lying, and I think the whole charge that she supported Buchanan is a red herring. I'm just saying there are alternatives to accusing someone who believes otherwise of simply "lying" or being "willfully ignorant."
8.31.2008 1:50pm
wuzzagrunt (mail):
How much do the Obamites want to try to tie Palin in with the anti-semite Buchanan, when Obama had Jimmy Carter give a speech at the convention? At least they were smart enough to keep Michael Moore out of the front row, this time.
8.31.2008 1:57pm
Hoosier:
Dave N

I've also noticed a lot of "new friends". Friends who seem to post only on presidential-election matters.

Hmm.

But then, to be fair, I tend to bail out on the Sunday Song Lyric, since we never get the Ramones or Hole. So perhaps I'm some sort of troll?
8.31.2008 2:15pm
PC:
How much do the Obamites want to try to tie Palin in with the anti-semite Buchanan, when Obama had Jimmy Carter give a speech at the convention?


Yes, it would be much more interesting to discuss Governor Palin's ties to Dominionism and Joel's Army.
8.31.2008 2:19pm
JosephSlater (mail):
I agree with P3731.

Beyond that, as a Jew, I think that Palin's religious right / teach creationism in the public schools stuff ain't gonna play well with Jewish voters who are on the fence and care what VPs think.
8.31.2008 2:33pm
JosephSlater (mail):
In fact, although I generally don't think people vote for VPs, I think the two VP selections put Florida more in play for Obama than it was previously.
8.31.2008 2:47pm
FlimFlamSam:
JosephSlater,

Last time I checked, Genesis was in your Bible too.
8.31.2008 3:00pm
JosephSlater (mail):
FlimFlamSam:

True enough, but my co-religionists ain't the ones trying to mandate teaching Geneis in science classes.
8.31.2008 3:24pm
Dan M.:
You mean, she has ties to those movements because she attends a Pentecostal church? I read that entire lame diary entry on KOS about some guy that was at her church one time and his connection to the nefarious Assemblies of God and the evil Campus Crusade for Christ and the terrible Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Going after that is really going to play well with mainstream America.

As for Palin's views on creationism, she soon after "clarified" her statement, which politicians seem to be allowed to do.


In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are appointed by the governor and confirmed by the Legislature.

"I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism," Palin said.

Palin has occasionally discussed her lifelong Christian faith during the governor's race but said teaching creationism is nothing she has campaigned about or even given much thought to.

"We're talking about the gas line and PERS/TERS," she said Thursday, referring to the proposed natural gas pipeline and public employee and teacher retirement systems.


That's actually a reasonably bold semi-retraction for her, since Intelligent Design is specifically part of the Republican party platform in Alaska and she wasn't running for national office, then. I certainly think students should have plenty of freedom to ask critical questions. I'm absolutely convinced by natural selection and somewhat convinced by Common Descent and mostly convinced by the Big Bang Theory, and I'm not really much of a Christian anymore. But I still think it's silly to paint all Christians who believe in creation as anti-science. I've been of the opinion for a long time that anything but hardcore literalist fundamentalist Christianity can believe in creation and in natural selection and the Big Bang and even Common Descent. Despite my going-on 10 years agnosticism I still dislike the arrogance of the atheist crowd who seem to think that science is game over for religion when religion, being separate from science, is clearly reconcilable with science.

I think it's pretty clear to any reasonable person, creationist or not, that Joshua's account of the sun standing still in the sky was written from the earth's perspective and that God did not, in fact, have the sun stand still in order to keep the day from changing to night.
8.31.2008 3:27pm
Hoosier:
Maybe the Sun stood still in a spiritual way, but we are too sinful to see it. (With apologies to Evelyn Waugh.)
8.31.2008 3:33pm
EIDE_Interface (mail):

JosephSlater (mail):
I agree with P3731.

Beyond that, as a Jew, I think that Palin's religious right / teach creationism in the public schools stuff ain't gonna play well with Jewish voters who are on the fence and care what VPs think.


As a Jew, I couldn't care less about it as long as she keeps quiet about it. I care a lot more that she's a decent conservative. Obama would be a disaster for this nation.
8.31.2008 3:36pm
JosephSlater (mail):
EODE-Interface:

Which is why I specifically referred to "Jewish voters who are on the fence and care what VPs think." That is not the entire universe of Jews. Neither you nor I are in that category (McCain/Palin would be a disaster for this nation, IMHO).

But for the folks I was actually talking about, I think Palin hurts more than helps.
8.31.2008 3:52pm
Ohio Scrivener (mail):
"Anyone who continues to push the "Sarah Palin supported Pat Buchanan in 2000" line is either willfully ignorant or lying."

I agree. Sadly, many suffer from one of those two defects in the main stream media or the Obama camp, but I repeat myself.
8.31.2008 3:57pm
jgshapiro (mail):

Beyond that, as a Jew, I think that Palin's religious right / teach creationism in the public schools stuff ain't gonna play well with Jewish voters who are on the fence and care what VPs think.

Well, as a Jew I can second the creationism concern, but from what I have read she said she does not thing it should be part of a school curriculum, but that teachers should be able to answer questions about it if asked as part of the evolution curriculum, I'm not sure I disagree with that; I wonder what else they would do if asked a question about creationism? Would they otherwise stand mute or say they are prohibited by law from answering the question?

I am more worried about Obama's past associations with Wright and Farrakhan and his recent flirtations with Jimmy Carter, than I am about either the creationism thing or Palin once wearing a Buchanan button when he stopped by her town.

Lately Obama has been far more vocal about supporting Israel, but to the extent that support for Israel will play a part in my vote, the key for me is whether Obama will support Israel if they decide they have to take out Iran's nuclear equipment. That will be the acid test because it will be immensely unpopular in the Arab world and with Europe, and will complicate things further with Russia.

I don't have any doubt about where McCain stands on Israel. Biden also has a long record of supporting Israel.
8.31.2008 4:00pm
DG:
I must agree. As a Jew, I have no concerns at all about Biden or McCain. With Palin, my concerns are minimal - I'm not crazy about the flirtation with creationism. Obama, I do have some real foreign policy concerns about. Not just Israel - I think the Israelis can take care of themselves. I worry about the Kurds, eastern Europe, etc. Obama
8.31.2008 4:35pm
Dave N (mail):

nom de blog


Love it. Did you come up with this, or find it somewhere else?
I wish I could claim it. I saw something similar somewhere and thought it clever. When I googled (is the word generic enough NOT to capitalize?)the term, the Urban Dictionary provided a definition that matched my usage.
8.31.2008 4:46pm
Andy Freeman (mail):
> Anyone who continues to push the "Sarah Palin supported Pat Buchanan in 2000" line is either willfully ignorant or lying.

You say that like it's a bad thing....

Get with the program - the "Politics of Change" TM has no problems with either one and it's racist to suggest otherwise.
8.31.2008 4:48pm
EH (mail):
So, can we agree that either Presidential ticket would be a disaster for the country?
8.31.2008 6:02pm
Hoosier:
Dave N-- Pural "noms de blog"? What do the French call "blogs"? Probably something like "forums of discussion by means of the computer." Or something like that.

Yeah. Let's stick with 'nom de blog.'
8.31.2008 7:06pm
Hoosier:
Hoosier's scientific survey of Jews:

50% are upset by Palin
50% are not upset by Palin


(Survey sampled two Jewish men in their 40s by phone. One is my best friend from undergrad. The other is the partner of my best friend from grad school.)

Margin of error +/- 40%

Margin of error for the "Margin of error" +/- 20%
8.31.2008 7:10pm
JosephSlater (mail):
Hoosier:

Talk to two other Jews tomorrow and update, please. All us internet poll-watchers know that the important thing is the way polls trend.
8.31.2008 8:31pm
AKD:
Please be sure to also poll the one Jew in Alaska.
8.31.2008 9:01pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):

Please be sure to also poll the one Jew in Alaska.


There are at least three Jews in Fairbanks alone.
8.31.2008 9:34pm
Angus:
I wonder what else they would do if asked a question about creationism?Say that it's a science class, and that all questions in class should be about scientific matters. Not that hard.

The whole "teach the controversy" thing is the latest brainchild of the ID movement, despite there really not being a controversy.
8.31.2008 11:27pm
subpatre (mail):
Angus said "The whole "teach the controversy" thing is the latest brainchild of the ID movement..."

... in response to the earlier "I am not allowed to discuss non-evolution questions" brainchild of the humanists.

Both are stupid. Neither are close to Palin's position.
9.1.2008 12:38am
David M. Nieporent (www):
There are at least three Jews in Fairbanks alone.
Well, then, that's four or five opinions on Palin right there.
9.1.2008 1:42am
josh:
Couldn't agree with this more. I hope people stop trying to tie Palin to Buchanan and focus on the issues, like her acts as governor and mayor to raise taxes (See http://www.motherjones.com/ kevin-drum/2008/08/sarah_palin_and_taxes.html) or her firing of the head of public safety for refusing to fire her ex-brother-in-law (See http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/ archive/2008/08/30/1310109.aspx) or her being for federal funding for the "Bridge to Nowhere" before she was against it (See http://www.reuters.com/ article/bondsNews/idUSN3125537020080901).

I feel so much better knowing she didn't support Buchanan.
9.1.2008 4:03pm
Hoosier:
Joseph Slater: Sorry. I couldn't reach two more Jews. So I called the same two again. One wasn't at home. So Palin's postives among the Tribe are 100%.

That's a trend, right there.
9.1.2008 9:00pm
JustPassingBy (mail):
The whole Palin Buchanan thing - what is this about? Seriously, I do not know the substance of what's in question; is she supposedly a Buchanan supporter or just had some sort of 3rd hand connection? I saw mention of it in a conservative newspaper and in the above posts.

Has Mrs. Palin said whether she was a Buchanan supporter either way?
Beyond wearing a button for one day, is there anything reliable, or even half reliable to tell us either way?

It's tough to get reliable info on this sort of thing during an election. Whatever the true story is may be printed, but so much noise + spin (by all partisans) is thrown about it's tough to pull the actual picture out of all the garbage. Average folks without connections probably won't know the "real" picture of the major candidates until long after the election.

I'm not a regular member here, as my signon indicates. I figure there may be more info here than in a major newspaper, which aren't entirely reliable in any case.
9.3.2008 11:57pm
jukeboxgrad (mail):
hoosier:

Well, jukebox on this blog, for one, said that the whole taser-thing was overblown. See, the biy *asked* to be tasered.


Yes, it was overblown. A lot of people are being left to think that it was some kind of vicious assault, or an act of discipline, punishment or torture. But it was something materially different. The son asked for a demo. And then the kid immediately told his mom he was OK, and asked to be tasered again, and bragged about it to his friends.

It was still an act of very bad judgment on Wooten's part, but the facts should be described accurately.

a responsible dad does what his kids want. Even if it could harm them, it would appear.


Wooten used a demo cartridge, and followed demo procedures. In a short demo like this, "it would feel like your funny bone was hit."

While this was happening, mom was upstairs, and she knew what was happening, and she didn't go downstairs to intervene.

No one complained about this until 2005, when a messy divorce was happening. That's when the Palins finally decided to report this event to the police. A police investigator asked Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol why they were finally reporting it two years later, after being silent for so long. She said "because of the divorce."

If you're going to tell a story, please try to include all the relevant details.

Speaking of misinformation, are you having any luck finding that page number?
9.4.2008 12:39pm