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Obama Wins Big in NC, Based on Exit Polls.--

Barack Obama has been declared the winner in North Carolina by Fox News and CBS.

The exit polls have him ahead 55% to 41%, a huge lead.

SIG357:
Given how accurate the exit polls have been so far, does that mean Clinton wins NC?
5.6.2008 9:16pm
Charlie (Colorado) (mail):
The exits seem to have a pretty consistent 7 pct overshoot, so look for something like 52-45.
5.6.2008 9:24pm
ithaqua (mail):
Hussein vs. Rodham. Whoever wins, we lose.
5.6.2008 9:30pm
Oren:
Charlie, CNN shows it as Obama winning by better than 60-40 at the moment, so either you meant overshoot in the other direction or you are just wrong.
5.6.2008 10:01pm
The General:
2 unqualified socialists battling it out. The Democrat party is insane for nominating either one of these two. God help us if either one wins the presidency.
5.6.2008 10:25pm
NR:
ithaqua:

Hold on - is Obama's middle name really "Hussein"? Wow, I hadn't heard that. That is really alarming. I mean, isn't that also the last name of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein? Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? Like, how do we know Obama won't gas his own people? Can we really afford to take that chance? Thanks for opening my eyes. This changes everything.
5.6.2008 10:42pm
A guy:
Man this is what passes for discourse? Two "socialists?" Do you even know what a socialist is, or does? What one looks like? Have you ever been to Europe? Both Obama and Clinton would be right of center there. Why devalue the term? What would you call Kucinich? A Maoist?
5.6.2008 10:44pm
Bored HLS 3L:
Invective. Slur. Hyperbole.

So much for, "we're also hoping that people try to be as calm, reasoned, and substantive as possible."

With discourse like this amongst so many of the educated in this country no wonder we have candidates like these three.
5.6.2008 10:46pm
Mahan Atma (mail):
"is Obama's middle name really "Hussein"?"



Yes! Word on the "street" is that he's a SECRET MUSLIM!!!
5.6.2008 10:48pm
You must supply a name to post as a guest.:
A socialist who's "mild" enough to make it in US politics is still a socialist. Don't play that slipping name game. Anything can be nothing if you compare it to something else.
5.6.2008 10:49pm
SIG357:
If Obama reaches the general it's a win-win for the Obamicans.

He loses, and it's simply proof that America is still the rotten place they say it is, and that the old white people need to be replaced with better stock.

He wins, and it's The Dawning of The Age of Aquarius.
5.6.2008 11:01pm
Gaius Marius:
Hold on - is Obama's middle name really "Hussein"? Wow, I hadn't heard that. That is really alarming. I mean, isn't that also the last name of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein? Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? Like, how do we know Obama won't gas his own people? Can we really afford to take that chance? Thanks for opening my eyes. This changes everything.

You might also be interested in knowing that Obama has an additional name: Mohamad. In fact, Obama's full name is Barack Hussein Mohamad Obama according to his paternal relatives in Kenya.
5.6.2008 11:04pm
Jim at FSU (mail):
Two numbers I noticed.

1) Gun owners really DO NOT WANT Obama. Divided on Clinton.
2) Black people really liek Obama a lot. White people not so much.

I'm increasingly looking forward to the Obama candidacy come August.

Do you or does someone else in your household own a gun?
Clinton Obama No Preference
Yes (46%) 49% 46% 4%
No (54%) 34% 63% 3%

Are you: Clinton Obama No Preference
White (62%) 60% 36% 4%
Black (33%) 6% 91% 2%
5.6.2008 11:08pm
SIG357:
Do you even know what a socialist is, or does? What one looks like?

I'd assume that they look like Comte de Saint-Simon.


"The school of Saint-Simon insists strongly on the claims of merit; they advocate a social hierarchy in which each man shall be placed according to his capacity and rewarded according to his works. This is, indeed, a most special and pronounced feature of the Saint-Simon socialism, whose theory of government is a kind of spiritual or scientific autocracy."




Scientific autocracy seems to sum up the modern left perfectly.
5.6.2008 11:09pm
NR:
SIG357:

I'm more worried about whether, if Obama wins the general election, he will let the U.N. weapons inspectors in. But you raise a good point: I'm sure Obama's supporters would be equally happy to see him win or lose the general election. So long as they can prove that America either is or isn't a racist country.
5.6.2008 11:16pm
kadet (mail):
ithaqua,
yes, you lost, Smith
5.6.2008 11:18pm
Jim at FSU (mail):
Hussein Mohamad?

Hahaha, oh wow.
5.6.2008 11:19pm
LM (mail):
Gaius Marius,

You might also be interested in knowing that Obama has an additional name: Mohamad. In fact, Obama's full name is Barack Hussein Mohamad Obama according to his paternal relatives in Kenya.

Gaius, Gaius.... You're taking their word for it? And what are their names?
5.6.2008 11:24pm
bobby b (mail):
"Socialist" isn't a point, it's a range on a continuum. Modern Hillary (the one who runs in elections) wouldn't fit that range (at least until the election was over), while Bill's Hillary ranged widely over the left half of it. Saddam Obama - no, sorry, wait - Barrack Hussein - no, sorry, wait - that black guy - ohmigawd, no, sorry, wait - okay, "The Other Democrat" - yeah, that's safe - as (arguably) The Most Liberal senator of 2007, falls easily within the redistributionist/ "it's-only-yours-if-we-don't-confiscate-it"/
"the-only-good-person-is-a-useless-complaining-mooch" mindset that is the hallmark of socialism.
5.6.2008 11:26pm
Zombie Richard Feynman (mail) (www):
As I understand it, to a conservative socialism is like sin. Every country does it, though some to lesser extents than others.

Unless we go back to the Hoover era American government enters into the economy. Even then, there were the seeds of socialism - Bank of the US anyone?

Of course B. Hussein Obama and Monica's boyfriend's wife are socialists - so is McCain, and even Bush.

Only through the church of Rand can one find aboslution.
5.6.2008 11:28pm
SIG357:
I see that McCain is winning NC and IN by about 75% each. Which is pretty terrible, for a man whos already won his race.
5.6.2008 11:29pm
SIG357:
As I understand it, to a conservative socialism is like sin ..... Only through the church of Rand can one find aboslution

I'd expect sharper insight than that from a poster taking Feynman's name. Rand was no conservative. Not even a libertarian really.
5.6.2008 11:33pm
Syd Henderson (mail):
Barack Hussein Mohamad Obama Jr.

(If the Mohamad is really there)

He's named for his father.
5.6.2008 11:33pm
LM (mail):
SIG357:

I see that McCain is winning NC and IN by about 75% each. Which is pretty terrible, for a man whos already won his race.

75%? Sounds like Ron Paul has him just where he wants him.
5.6.2008 11:36pm
frankcross (mail):
Of course, calling someone by his middle name, especially in circumstances like this, pegs a person at a junior school level of mentality. It is simply a version of contentless "name calling."

People who do this seek the applause of the like minded extreme, but in the process they make the vast majority think less of them, and thereby undermine their message.

A similar example would be people who use the word "socialist" without knowing its definition.
5.6.2008 11:42pm
SIG357:
Like people who call George Allen "George Felix Allen". Or Bush "Shrub". I'm sure such behavior is beneath the dignity of the commenters here at VC.


Ron Paul has him just where he wants him.

Actually Huckabee is second in both states.
5.6.2008 11:49pm
Zombie Richard Feynman (mail) (www):
I will admit to taking Feynman's name in vain (Homage to a past life as a physicist).

However, I have some seriousl trouble finding the daylight between libertarian jurisprudence and conservative jurisprudence. Same holds for economics. It's in the social and foreign policy realms you see a difference. So I stand by my awesome analogy.
5.6.2008 11:53pm
LM (mail):

Actually Huckabee is second in both states.

Yeah, but Huckabee's vote count is suppressed by the CFR. ;)
5.6.2008 11:59pm
LM (mail):
... isn't suppressed by the CFR.

(Preview is my friend... preview is my friend...)
5.7.2008 12:03am
SIG357:
I have some seriousl trouble finding the daylight between libertarian jurisprudence and conservative jurisprudence. Same holds for economics.

It's been a long day so maybe I can explain it some other time, unless anyone else wants to help out. But the differences are considerable. Immense, even.
5.7.2008 12:04am
Gregory Conen (mail):
11 pm: Obama up 56-42 in NC, 93% reporting.
Clinton up 52-48 in IN, 86% reporting.
5.7.2008 12:08am
Bored HLS 3L:
I just don't know what to believe anymore.
Is Obama a secret Muslim who will hand over the country to Osama because their names rhyme?
Or does his crazy, black Christian minister's influence that makes him untrustworthy?
Or is he going to turn us all commie/socialist?
Can he do all three? Is that much change possible?

I'm surely not going to vote for the man, but if you are seriously afraid of one these possibilities...
Well, you know what they say, we get the government we deserve.
Good night.
5.7.2008 12:08am
A. Zarkov (mail):
"Have you ever been to Europe? Both Obama and Clinton would be right of center there."

If "Europe" includes Italy then would HRC and BHO be to the right of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, President of Parliament Gianfranco Fini, and Mayor of Rome Gianni Alemanno? In case you're not up on your Italian politics, Alemanno was from Movimento Sociale (Mussolini’s party), Fini took over the old fascist party and renamed it Alleanza Nazionale, and of course Berlusconi is a well-known anti-leftist.

Do you think BHO is to the right of French President Sarkozy from France's Center-Right party?

Even in that most socialist of countries, Belgium, a quarter of the Flanders (2/3 population of Belgium) electorate votes for Vlaams Belang, the right-leaning Flemish national party.

While it's too soon to tell for sure, it looks like Europe is trending right. The left has screwed Europe and now the right wants a chance to do likewise.
5.7.2008 12:12am
liberty (mail) (www):

Have you ever been to Europe? Both Obama and Clinton would be right of center there.


Actually, I suspect they would just sell themselves differently. Politicians pander - it doesn't mean they don't have beliefs, but its hard to know what they really believe, what they would like to do versus what they can do, and what they would do given half a chance.

Considering Obama's alleged friendship (friendship or just acquaintance? I don't know) with the socialist radicals of the sixties, or anyway his refusal to denounce them, he could be farther left than he is currently admitting. Hillary also flirted heavily with socialism in her youth.

Does that mean anything (about either of them)? I don't know. But that is my point: its hard to know. You can't just take their word for it, you have to try to read between the lines. Of course, that makes many a voter paranoid (those who stay awake long enough), and probably makes us silly too.
5.7.2008 12:14am
Hoosier:
a guy: "What one looks like?"

Well, now I'm curious. What DOES a socialist look like?

Like this?

www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/mm/2006/10/1161982996.90472.jpg

Or more like this?

www.politicospublishing.co.uk/images/475/1902301854.jpg


As you can see, this DOES matter.
5.7.2008 12:25am
SIG357:
Difficult to see how Obama does not lose in a blowout in November if nominated. The exit poll numbers are stunning. He gets the blacks and the latte liberals, and thats about it. 93% of the black vote everywhere he goes. He's the black candidate.

Much as I detest McCain, he looks like he has an excellent shot at being the next President.
5.7.2008 12:29am
arbitraryaardvark (mail) (www):
It looks like HRC gains 6 delegates in IN, loses 9 in NC,
net loss of 3.
5.7.2008 12:33am
Hoosier:
aardvark--In other words, it's still CLOSE. It's very CLOSE. Close, you see.

So we need to count EVERY VOTE. I mean, when it's so CLOSE.


I will be voting for McCain. And I want him to run against Obama. But my motivation for the (above) sarcasm is not due to this preference. I just can't get past thinking that Hillary wants to take Obama down in November. So she'll have one more shot when McCain is too old to run again in 2012.
5.7.2008 12:37am
SIG357:
In NC where Obama won in a blowout, Clinton carried white Democrats and white indys with 62% and 58%. How did Obama win the state? He carried 92% of the black vote. 92%!

Sorry, that's pure racism, and it makes him toxic in the general election. McCain has a good shot at winning the Jewish and Hispanic votes en route to picking up 400+ EV's.
5.7.2008 12:39am
Thorley Winston (mail) (www):

Hillary also flirted heavily with socialism in her youth.


Was that before or after she was a “Goldwater girl”?
5.7.2008 12:41am
Hoosier:
SIG--I suspect McCain sees some of what you are seeing. He's looking to make a serious play for the Hispanic vote. (Another reason Obama supporters should not wait up tonight hoping Lake County will put their guy over the top. Gary is 85% Black. But it is surounded by heavily or significantly Hispanic towns like East Chicago and Lake Station. Those places will go for Clinton.)
5.7.2008 12:44am
SIG357:
Obama supporters should not wait up tonight hoping Lake County will put their guy over the top

It's looking like they won't be turning in their results until the Convention the way things are going. Geez, how long does it take to run some blank ballots through the puncher?
5.7.2008 12:47am
SIG357:
Heh, they just ran them through, and suddenly cut Clintons lead in half. Maybe the Clintons will become converts to the cause of ballot integrity now.
5.7.2008 12:49am
Oren:
Yes! Word on the "street" is that he's a SECRET MUSLIM!!!
DID YOU KNOW HE HAD A BLACK CHILD?
5.7.2008 12:50am
Oren:
McCain has a good shot at winning the Jewish and Hispanic votes en route to picking up 400+ EV's.
Care to place a wager on that?
5.7.2008 12:51am
Gaius Marius:
Much as I detest McCain, he looks like he has an excellent shot at being the next President.

But for how long? McCain won't survive his first term as POTUS thereby making his choice for VP a selection of a future POTUS.
5.7.2008 12:51am
Hoosier:
Oh, he will most likely survive. But now . . . alas . . . I've lost interest in the veep-stakes.

Sarah Palin gave birth to a new baby, and the child is seriously handicapped. I'm sure she'll want to focus on home and family now instead of running for veep 24/7. And she'll be right to do so, of course.

And yet . . . So close to having our first really GORGEOUS veep since Alben Barkley.
5.7.2008 1:02am
Crane (mail):
DID YOU KNOW HE HAD A BLACK CHILD?

Dude, Obama's got TWO black kids! Do you know what that says about his character?!
5.7.2008 1:06am
ithaqua (mail):
"But for how long? McCain won't survive his first term as POTUS thereby making his choice for VP a selection of a future POTUS."

I expect Huckabee to be his VP; they worked together earlier in the primaries to throw Romney under the bus (good riddance!) and it'll give McCain, who's mistrusted as a RINO, serious credit with the social conservatives. As Bush showed us, Republicans don't win by swinging to the 'center' and appealing to independents (Democrats pander better); we win by running a unabashedly God-centered and patriotic campaign, inspiring the 'silent majority' of conservatives to get out and vote.

"In NC where Obama won in a blowout, Clinton carried white Democrats and white indys with 62% and 58%. How did Obama win the state? He carried 92% of the black vote. 92%!

Sorry, that's pure racism, and it makes him toxic in the general election. "

I'm sorry, but even I can't get behind this one. Are you seriously arguing that white people won't vote for Obama because black people vote for him? That any candidate seen as the 'black candidate' is ipso facto toxic to whites?

I mean, there are so, so many reasons for white people to shun Obama - for example, his association with white-hating, American-hating racists like Jeremiah Wright and Michelle Obama - but pretending that Obama's support among black voters is going to turn off white voters in the general election really is a libel against white Americans in general.

"Difficult to see how Obama does not lose in a blowout in November if nominated. The exit poll numbers are stunning. He gets the blacks and the latte liberals, and thats about it. 93% of the black vote everywhere he goes. He's the black candidate."

Try this: this is the Democrat primary. You really think the people voting for Hillary are going to sit out the general - or vote for McCain - to avoid voting for the scary scary black man? Again: Obama has heavy black support in the primary. But that isn't going to hurt him at all in the general, even if there's a big chunk of Americans who won't vote for a 'black candidate', because black voters *always* support the Democrat. Anyone who finds black support 'toxic' would never have voted for a Democrat in the first place.

"If "Europe" includes Italy then would HRC and BHO be to the right of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, President of Parliament Gianfranco Fini, and Mayor of Rome Gianni Alemanno? In case you're not up on your Italian politics, Alemanno was from Movimento Sociale (Mussolini’s party), Fini took over the old fascist party and renamed it Alleanza Nazionale, and of course Berlusconi is a well-known anti-leftist. "

So that's one out of three (Berlusconi) Hillary and Hussein might be to the left of. Fascism is, of course, a liberal ideology.

"Saddam Obama - no, sorry, wait - Barrack Hussein - no, sorry, wait - that black guy - ohmigawd, no, sorry, wait - okay, "The Other Democrat" - yeah, that's safe - as (arguably) The Most Liberal senator of 2007, falls easily within the redistributionist/ "it's-only-yours-if-we-don't-confiscate-it"/
"the-only-good-person-is-a-useless-complaining-mooch" mindset that is the hallmark of socialism."

Well said. Of course, you can just call him Hussein. It's his name, after all. Or do you think being named 'Hussein Muhammed' is something to be ashamed of? Tsk, tsk, what happened to multiculturalism? :)
5.7.2008 1:18am
Gaius Marius:
The best GOP choice for VP is South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford.
5.7.2008 1:22am
ithaqua (mail):
"Sarah Palin gave birth to a new baby, and the child is seriously handicapped. I'm sure she'll want to focus on home and family now instead of running for veep 24/7. And she'll be right to do so, of course. "

If she was a Democrat, she could just leave the baby in a dumpster and move on. Planned Parenthood would probably give her a medal. Of course, as a Republican, she of course has actual morals :)
5.7.2008 1:30am
SIG357:
You really think the people voting for Hillary are going to sit out the general - or vote for McCain - to avoid voting for the scary scary black man?

You ever spend any time at liberal blogs, which have split into Obama and Clinton factions, and detest each other? You ever look at the polls, which have queried people on just this question? You ever consider that McCain is practically a Dem in many respects, and that he'd be an easy cross-over for a great many Democrats? You ever consider what the GOP will do with Obama, not being constrained to try to be nice to blacks as Clinton is?
5.7.2008 1:34am
Gaius Marius:
If she was a Democrat, she could just leave the baby in a dumpster and move on. Planned Parenthood would probably give her a medal. Of course, as a Republican, she of course has actual morals :)

A lot of Democrats are conservatives and Senator David Vitter of Louisiana wouldn't know what morals are if they bit him on his whoremongering ass.
5.7.2008 1:36am
SIG357:
As Bush showed us, Republicans don't win by swinging to the 'center' and appealing to independents (Democrats pander better); we win by running a unabashedly God-centered and patriotic campaign, inspiring the 'silent majority' of conservatives to get out and vote.


If that's parody, it's too subtle for me. If it's serious - what country have you been living in?
5.7.2008 1:36am
Gaius Marius:
In the end, the DC Madam showed that she possessed far greater personal honor than Senator David Vitter by hanging herself.
5.7.2008 1:40am
SIG357:
Some rather low class sorts of people commenting on this site.

we're also hoping that people try to be as calm, reasoned, and substantive as possible. So please, also avoid rants, invective, substantial and repeated exaggeration, and radical departures from the topic of the thread.
5.7.2008 1:47am
ithaqua (mail):
"A lot of Democrats are conservatives"

If they were conservatives, they'd be Christians. And if they were Christians, they wouldn't vote for the baby-killers.

"and Senator David Vitter of Louisiana wouldn't know what morals are if they bit him on his whoremongering ass."

Vitter may be a hypocrite, but at least he knows that what he did was wrong, and he did good work supporting a pro-family agenda in his political career. Any Democrat, even one with a spotless personal record, is far more morally flawed than he.

"You ever spend any time at liberal blogs, which have split into Obama and Clinton factions, and detest each other?"

Yes. Did you ever hang out at liberal blogs in the spring of 2004? Democrats always argue like this in the primaries; the Dean v. Kerry battles were vicious as heck, and cries of 'I'll sit out the election!' were commonplace; but you have to understand that Democrats have no principles whatsoever. The crimes they're accusing Obama and Hillary of? Probably all true, but - unlike Republicans - no Democrat really cares about how odious their candidate is. It's all about getting their candidate into office, after which they can rely on the Democrat pandering instinct to push their separate identity-politics agendas through.

"You ever consider that McCain is practically a Dem in many respects, and that he'd be an easy cross-over for a great many Democrats?"

Control of the judiciary means control of the country. The single biggest issue - for both parties - is the power to nominate judges to Supreme Court (and, to a lesser extent, to the lesser benches). You saw the links to McCain's judicial steering committee. No Democrat, if he or she pays enough attention to politics to have a strong enough opinion about Obama to refuse to vote for him, is going to vote for that committee in a million years.

"If it's serious - what country have you been living in?"

America. The part of it that still remembers we're One Nation Under God. A nice place, you should visit it sometime.
5.7.2008 1:58am
ithaqua (mail):
"Some rather low class sorts of people commenting on this site."

Elitist :P
5.7.2008 1:59am
Gaius Marius:
Some rather low class sorts of people commenting on this site.

No one can get any lower than Senator David Vitter.
5.7.2008 1:59am
Jerry F:
"Hold on - is Obama's middle name really "Hussein"? Wow, I hadn't heard that. That is really alarming. I mean, isn't that also the last name of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein?"

Blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is that there are enough normal Americans wouldn't vote for BHO if they knew what his middle name was to make a difference in the election, i.e., if every American knew his middle name he would not win. So no wonder that the mainstream media, even some supposedly right-of-center publications, make a point of not mentioning his middle name.
5.7.2008 2:05am
Hoosier:
I told him YEARS AGO, "Dude, change the name." I said no way he's gona be president with a name like 'Barack Mohammed'. I said he needed to change it to "Barry Manilow".

He should'a listend ta me.
5.7.2008 2:26am
Oren:
In the end, the DC Madam showed that she possessed far greater personal honor than Senator David Vitter by hanging herself.
Alright folks, thanks for playing but I think we have a winner here. No need to post anything more, it's just going to pale in light of this doozy.
5.7.2008 4:17am
A. Zarkov (mail):
"Fascism is, of course, a liberal ideology."

Italian fascism is liberal? Let's recall that fascism puts a strong emphasis on nationalism, and religiosity. It also puts power into the executive over the legislature. Does any of that sound like American style liberalism?

"So that's one out of three (Berlusconi) Hillary and Hussein might be to the left of."

I could go on. How about Václav Havel, president of the Czech Republic? He's against the global warming movement so popular with American liberals. HRC and BHO each want the US to cut carbon emissions by 80% by 2050. Even McCain want to cut it by 65%
5.7.2008 5:44am
liberty (mail) (www):

Hillary also flirted heavily with socialism in her youth.


Was that before or after she was a “Goldwater girl”?


After. She was raised by conservative parents, but became liberal after leaving home. She visited the Soviet Union and wrote Marxist rants during college.

I made it clear that I don't think this necessarily means anything; but also that one should try to get a broad picture of the leanings of a candidate. How much has she changed her economic views since she did lean hard left- just a little or a whole lot? How about her idea that the government can provide universal health care coverage?

Doesn't sound very Barry Goldwater to me.
5.7.2008 10:01am
James Lindgren (mail):
Zarkov:

Italian fascism is liberal? Let's recall that fascism puts a strong emphasis on nationalism, and religiosity. It also puts power into the executive over the legislature. Does any of that sound like American style liberalism?


Italian fascism was not particularly religious, and it displaced the church as the center of life for youth. For Hitler, the church was one of his main targets. If he had won the WW2, he had plans to rid the world of religion.

I have studied authoritarianism and fascism. I certainly don't think that fascism was right wing. But I don't think it fits very well as left wing either, b/c the militarism and nationalism are usually more right wing than left wing (though there are exceptions, such as the Soviet Union).
5.7.2008 12:08pm
JosephSlater (mail):
Maybe the most insane comment thread on the VC in a long time. I suspect it's frustration that the Dems aren't going to keep fighting it out, and that they will unite behind a strong, attractive candidate in Obama.
5.7.2008 1:21pm
Perseus (mail):
I suspect it's frustration that the Dems aren't going to keep fighting it out, and that they will unite behind a strong, attractive candidate in Obama.

So sayeth yet another member of the upscale cultural elite in the academy which finds leftist demagogues irresistible.
5.7.2008 2:44pm
astrangerwithcandy (mail):
Slater, I love your comments. They are so reliably smug.
5.7.2008 3:53pm
just watching666 (mail):
Slater, I love your comments.
5.7.2008 4:40pm
LM (mail):
Slater, I
5.7.2008 6:02pm