The Volokh Conspiracy

Killer's Last Words:
From the Arizona Republic:
  Robert Comer died Tuesday with a steady gaze and a defiant smile on his face, the first person to be executed in Arizona since November 2000.
  He was strapped to a gurney and covered up to his neck with a sheet.
  There was no sight of the catheter into his groin that made the lethal injection possible, no sight of the executioners on the other side of a wall.
  But Comer was smiling; he had petitioned the federal courts to stop his appeals and hasten his own execution. He was in control of his destiny.
  Comer brought a picture of his daughter with him to the death chamber and used his last words to say, "Go, Raiders."
Mongoose 388:
I heard this story on the radio the other morning. It seems he is not the first condemned man to utter "Go Raiders!", but only a copycat. One less member of the Raider nation.
5.25.2007 2:51pm
KingOfMyCastle:
Typical Raider fan...
5.25.2007 2:51pm
KingOfMyCastle:
I'd like to see an amendment to the immigration bill for this. Gang affiliation or Raider affiliation should both be grounds for deportation.
5.25.2007 2:52pm
Justin (mail):
But could his Raider affiliation be used against him under Fed. R. Evid. 403 (and the First Amendment)?
5.25.2007 2:54pm
Bob_R (mail):
Better than "Rosebud."
5.25.2007 3:07pm
Steve P. (mail):
The Raiders can use all the luck they can get.
5.25.2007 3:14pm
Dave N (mail):
Justin,

I suspect that in San Francisco, Comer would have a First Amendment right to the words but that Rule 403 would prevent them from being used against him.

On the hand, the Cardinals fans in Arizona probably don't care.
5.25.2007 3:19pm
Richard Aubrey (mail):
As is usual in stories like this, the concept that he had committed a particularly heinous crime is missing. As are the names of his victim(s) and their families.
5.25.2007 3:21pm
Dave N (mail):
I should also add that perhaps Comer "volunteered" so that he would not have to endure another abysmal Raiders season.
5.25.2007 3:21pm
ed o:
no, what is important is he gets off a funny line-the body count trailing behind him is irrelevant. he was probably wrongfully convicted and the actual victim due to a deprived youth anyway.
5.25.2007 3:27pm
Shelby (mail):
From what I know of Raiders fans (and I've lived with a couple of the bastards), they'll be proud of this.
5.25.2007 3:32pm
Thorley Winston (mail) (www):
As is usual in stories like this, the concept that he had committed a particularly heinous crime is missing. As are the names of his victim(s) and their families.

Well on the plus side Raiders fans won’t want to count him as one of their own and people who hate the Raiders have one more reason to despise him. ;)

Seriously though, you’re right that it is sickening the way that murderers like this piece of crap, Tookie Williams, Mumiah Whatisface get turned into celebrities in our culture. I think that instead of giving a condemned criminal his “last words” they should read aloud the obituary of his victim(s) and flip the switch.
5.25.2007 3:35pm
Thorley Winston (mail) (www):
But Comer was smiling; he had petitioned the federal courts to stop his appeals and hasten his own execution. He was in control of his destiny.


How many people who are “in control of [their own] destiny” have to spend 20 years of their life in prison knowing that someone else will eventually take their life when they decide they want to? Sounds to me like this guy had zero control of his own destiny and the asshat reporters were trying to build this raping, murdering piece of garbage up as some kind of a tough guy.
5.25.2007 3:42pm
Jeremy T:
Raider fans = condemned killers.
Bronco fans = classy people.
5.25.2007 3:43pm
Dave N (mail):
I got off a couple of snarky comments, but ed o and Richard Aubrey are right. So while engaging in the sport de jure of bashing the Raiders, let's also remember what Richard Comer did to earn his death sentence. These are the facts, courtesy of the Arizona Supreme Court:

In mid-January, 1987, appellant, Robert Comer, his companion, Juneva Willis, and Willis' two children left Sacramento, California, with less than $500.00. They traveled through several states before arriving at the Burnt Corral campground at Apache Lake on February 2, 1987. When the couple arrived at the campground, they had no money.

The following evening appellant invited Larry Pritchard, who was camping nearby, to dinner at appellant's campsite. Pritchard was a large man who, because of a physical disability, stood, sat and walked with considerable difficulty. After dinner, appellant told Juvena Willis, “I'm going to blow him [Pritchard] away.” At approximately 9:00 p.m., appellant shot Pritchard in the head with a .38 revolver. Following the shooting, appellant forced Willis to look at the body and said, “See what I've done, I'm a cold and callous killer.” It was unclear whether Pritchard died immediately from the gunshot wound. Later, appellant stabbed Pritchard in the neck.

Nearby campers, including the camp host Marquis Boltz, heard the gunshot. Within ten minutes after the shooting, Boltz went to the campsite and issued a citation to appellant for discharging a firearm in the campgrounds. Appellant admitted to Boltz that he fired the gun but Boltz was unaware that appellant shot and then stabbed Pritchard.

Before leaving the campsite, appellant went through Pritchard's pockets and took Pritchard's Emergency Medical Technician (EMT) badge. Willis hid the body by covering it with wood. Appellant and Willis then packed up their camp gear and drove to Pritchard's campsite. Appellant took a camera, fishing equipment, maps, a hunting knife belonging to Pritchard and Pritchard's beagle puppy. He attempted to take gasoline from Pritchard's car, but the tank was empty. Appellant also searched for money, but found none. Appellant then drove off “to think”. After parking and thinking for about an hour, appellant and Willis drove to the Jones/Smith campsite.

Earlier that day, appellant had met Jane Jones and Richard Smith who were also camping in the area. Appellant knew that they had a small amount of marijuana. Posing as “Arizona Drug Enforcement” officers, appellant and Willis ordered Jones and Smith at gunpoint to come out of their tent and lie on the ground. Appellant briefly flashed Pritchard's EMT badge to substantiate his story that he was on official police business and asked them where they kept the marijuana. Appellant “arrested” the couple and bound them with wire and duct tape. He then searched their tent and took some marijuana, a small sum of money and other personal items.

Appellant placed the couple in their truck and drove away. Willis followed in appellant's truck. After driving a short time, appellant stopped, spoke to Willis, and continued driving. Willis did not follow. Later, Jane Jones asked appellant to stop so she could relieve herself. Appellant stopped, cut the tape binding Jones' feet and took her into the woods. After Jones relieved herself, appellant sexually abused her. When appellant and Jones returned to the truck, appellant tied Smith to the front bumper of the truck and laid Jones next to Smith. Appellant then forced Jones to engage in oral sexual contact and then proceeded to have vaginal sexual intercourse with her.

After the assaults, appellant threatened to kill Smith, but Jones talked him out of it. Appellant left Smith bound in the woods and drove off with Jones in the couple's truck. Shortly thereafter, when the truck became stuck in a ditch, appellant abandoned the vehicle, and he and Jones walked back to appellant's truck where Willis was waiting.

Appellant drove his truck through the night with Willis, Jones and the two children and eventually ended up on El Oso Mine Road in Gila County. At one point, appellant stopped the truck, pulled Pritchard's dog out of the truck, and shot and killed it. He then warned Jones that he would shoot her if she tried to escape. Appellant continued driving on El Oso Mine Road until he stopped a second time. At a second stop, appellant placed a sleeping bag on the ground and sexually abused Jones by pulling hard on her genitals.

Appellant continued driving and stopped a third time when the truck ran out of gas. He directed Willis and the children to remove the camping gear from the truck. He then took Jones into the woods and engaged in sexual intercourse with her. Meanwhile, Smith freed himself, walked back to the Burnt Corral campground and subsequently reported the incident to the Department of Public Safety.

Jones managed to run away while appellant was busy with the truck. On the morning of February 5th, she was picked up on the highway by a passing motorist and taken to the sheriff's office. Appellant and Willis were apprehended that afternoon without incident. The police found Pritchard's EMT badge buried in the sand and appellant's .38 revolver at the scene of the arrests.

Appellant and Willis were charged in Maricopa County with first degree murder and armed robbery of Pritchard and armed robbery, kidnapping and aggravated assault of Jones and Smith. In addition, appellant was charged with two counts of sexual abuse and three counts of sexual assault of Jones. The case against Willis was remanded to the grand jury for a redetermination of probable cause. The second indictment did not charge Willis with the murder of Pritchard. Willis subsequently pled guilty to one count of kidnapping, a dangerous offense. As part of the plea agreement she agreed to testify against appellant. The other charges against Willis were dismissed.

The jury found appellant guilty on all counts. Appellant was sentenced to death for the murder of Pritchard and to aggravated, consecutive terms of imprisonment for the other offenses. The trial judge found as aggravating circumstances for imposing the death penalty that appellant previously had been convicted of two felonies involving the use or threat of violence, that the murder for which he stood convicted was committed in expectation of pecuniary gain and that it was committed in an especially heinous and depraved manner. The trial judge found no mitigating circumstances.

State v. Comer, 799 P.2d 333, 336-38 (Ariz. 1990).
5.25.2007 3:46pm
Thorley Winston (mail) (www):
I think Orin may have missed the real story:

Comer brought a picture of his daughter with him to the death chamber and used his last words to say, "Go, Raiders."


This isn’t a tough guy who got the last word, this was a pathetic piece of crap whose own family didn’t want to be there to comfort him in his last minutes on this Earth.
5.25.2007 3:47pm
Maureen001 (mail):
There was a jail photo of this man that accompanied the news article. He had five tear drops tatoo'd down the side of his face under his left eye. That's supposed to indicate the number of people he's murdered. I only saw two victims mentioned in the full article. If he did not exaggerate his record, then he has just contributed some credence to the thought that criminals are only apprehended over a small proportion of the crimes they actually commit.

There is some debate in both the medical and legal communities as to whether the condemned feel pain that they cannot express as a result of the drugs they are given when they are executed. This man's case adds nothing factual to that debate, but IF he anticipated losing the ability to express pain, then he chose to mask it with a smile, making that smile the last thing the world would see on him in an "in your face" sort of gesture. I suspect that the action of paralytic drugs working on both smooth and skeletal muscles would relax the smile into the blank expression we are being told by doctors (at least in California) masks the pain felt by the condemned. This smile puts the lie to their claim of pain and discomfort, no?
5.25.2007 3:51pm
Anderson (mail) (www):
the concept that he had committed a particularly heinous crime is missing

Or assumed. I didn't think they were executing him for jaywalking.
5.25.2007 3:51pm
Richard Aubrey (mail):
Anderson. Assumed? Yeah. Sort of a mushy he-must-have-done-something if anybody thinks about it at all. But in no way does it match the immediacy of the story about the poor schlub shuffling off. Sniff.
5.25.2007 4:45pm
Nels Nelson (mail):
Dave N, as hard as it was to read, thanks for posting that.

These journalists that glorify monsters make me ill. "Fatally shooting a man" is how his crime is described in the article, as though he was engaged in some target practice and accidentally clipped a passerby.
5.25.2007 4:59pm
neurodoc:
...He had five tear drops tatoo'd down the side of his face under his left eye...I suspect that the action of paralytic drugs working on both smooth and skeletal muscles would relax the smile into the blank expression we are being told by doctors (at least in California) masks the pain felt by the condemned.

FWIW here, I believe that pancuronium (variant of curare) selectively effects skeletal muscles, the only type involved in facial expression.

Good pick-up on the facial tattoos. I saw them in the photo too, but didn't appreciate their significance. There used to be a pretty high correlation between tattoos, especially certain types, and sociopathy, but I suppose the correlation is less these days with the increased social acceptance of tattoos. "L-O-V-E" tattooed between the knuckles of one hand and "H-A-T-E" between those of the other is not reassuring, though maybe not as telling as "tear drops" like Comer's. (I wonder whether his were "professionally" done.)
5.25.2007 5:01pm
Jim FSU 1L (mail):
What sucks is that it took 20 years to execute a man who waived his appeals.
5.25.2007 5:02pm
KeithK (mail):
Execution stories typically seem to read like anti-death penalty opinion pieces. Lot's of information about how few executions there have been lately, discussion of anti-death penalty lobbyists and their arguments and details about the defendant that seem designed to make him seem sympathetic (e.g. he had a picture of his daughter).

The sotry should have merited a single paragraph blurb. Something like: "Robert Comer was executed on Tuesday at xxx Prison in Florence, Arizona. He was convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to death in the 1987 killing of Larry Pritchard."
5.25.2007 5:22pm
whit:
in the tookie williams "debate" there was a great incident of this cult of personality that attaches to death row inmates.

i remember one pro-tookie pundit was being interviewed, claiming that he was knowledgeable about the case, how tookie should be pardoned, etc. etc. etc.

he was asked if he could name ONE of tookie's victims. couldn't do it. that pretty much sealed it for me - tookie was another cult of personality, just like mumia.
5.25.2007 5:31pm
49er Fan (mail):
Typical.

(I'm joking.)
5.25.2007 5:32pm
Maureen001 (mail):

neurodoc:FWIW here, I believe that pancuronium (variant of curare) selectively effects skeletal muscles, the only type involved in facial expression...


My bad! You're right. Pancuronium bromide affects only skeletal muscle, not smooth muscle.
5.25.2007 5:37pm
neurodoc:
Maureen001, My bad! You're right. Pancuronium bromide affects only skeletal muscle, not smooth muscle.

Yeah, but you picked up on the tear-drop tattoos which I overlooked, and those were more significant than the specifics of pancuronium. I do wonder when/where Comer got those tattoos and whether we can, in effect, take his word for having victimized a number equal to or greater than the number of tear drops.

Now, for those experienced in or knowledgeable about this: Would a prosecutor be allowed to call attention to those facial tattoos in front of jurors and question him as to their meaning? If I were Comer's defense counsel, an assignment I would not want, I would have a make-up artist cover up the tattoos as well as they could and object like hell if the prosecution went there.
5.25.2007 7:25pm
Maureen001 (mail):

Neurodoc:...I do wonder when/where Comer got those tattoos and whether we can, in effect, take his word for having victimized a number equal to or greater than the number of tear drops...


I wouldn't think so. Too much chance for puffery.
5.25.2007 8:06pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
The prosecution's mistake was failing to charge the SOB for killing the dog. Maybe that would have eliminated any sympathy for him.
5.25.2007 8:17pm
Harry Eagar (mail):
Hey, where are the posters who always raise questions about the fact of the crime whenever death penalty comes up at Volokh?

The ones who worry about executing the innocent.
5.25.2007 8:44pm
Thorley Winston (mail) (www):
Hey, where are the posters who always raise questions about the fact of the crime whenever death penalty comes up at Volokh?


I dunno, perhaps you could enlighten us by naming those alleged "posters who always raise questions about the fact of the crime whenever death penalty comes up at Volokh"?

It seems to me that we have a number of folks who have raised that as a concern about the death penalty in general but that’s quite a bit different than suggesting that every person executed was potentially wrongfully convicted.
5.25.2007 8:57pm
JB:
It's not the heinousness or lack thereof of the crime that bothers me about executions, it's the question of guilt.

On the other hand, all this talk about whether the executed feel pain is irrelevant to me. If we were after revenge we'd commit tortures far worse than 20 minutes of painful paralysis followed by death.

On the gripping hand, there seems to be no doubt in this case, and he waived his appeals. I see nothing wrong with executing a man guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, who is not attempting to stop his execution.
5.25.2007 10:33pm
Dave Hardy (mail) (www):
He was in control of his destiny.

At least the newspaper left off

"It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul."

Perhaps we could substitute:

"It matters not how strait the gate,
Nor if the Raiders win the Superbowl,
I am the master of my fate:
And ran up a murderous toll."
5.25.2007 10:36pm
Blue (mail):
It is funny that the anti-DP crowd is staying away from this one.
5.25.2007 10:40pm
anon123:
come on, it's 2007. Doesn't the current version of the joke has the subject saying "Go Bengals!"?
5.26.2007 12:20am
Harry Eagar (mail):
Thorley, I was thinking of, eg, Henry, as in this post from earlier this month:


(Henry copies a post of mine) 'Henry, can I assume that you're cool with executing heinous murderers in cases where there is no doubt that the verdict was correct, that the person being executed really did the deed?'

And he replies:

'That would be a foolish thing to assume, because I did not say that I had no reasons to oppose the death penalty other than the likelihood of executing innocent people. But, even if I had no other reason, I deny that there is ever "no doubt." There may appear to be no doubt, but people are framed, witnesses lie, and errors might have occured even when it doesn't seem possible that they did.'
5.26.2007 1:04am
Maureen001 (mail):
Apart from the argument regarding guilt, I do believe there is a valid agument opposing the death penalty from those who do not think it should ever be the role of the state to order death. I cannot overcome that argument for myself.

I do think it might be in the nature of sugar coating, in that it allows the victim's family and society to be removed from the judgment. Perhaps it would be better if the sentence of life vs. death was arrived at by those who suffer the loss of the victim, or in the event there is no one, by a court-appointed conservator to represent the loss of the victim to society. There would still be the same due process and court proceedings, with the only difference being the sentencing after the verdict is given. It seems to be a more direct process to me.
5.26.2007 3:32am
Peter Young:
Perhaps it would be better if the sentence of life vs. death was arrived at by those who suffer the loss of the victim, or in the event there is no one, by a court-appointed conservator to represent the loss of the victim to society. There would still be the same due process and court proceedings, with the only difference being the sentencing after the verdict is given. It seems to be a more direct process to me.

Don't you think that giving the decision of life versus death to someone with an interest in the outcome would violate one of the most fundamental requirements of due process--an impartial decision-maker?
5.26.2007 5:19am
Andrew Okun:
It is funny that the anti-DP crowd is staying away from this one.

Perhaps it is not funny, but instructive, indicating that the anti-DP crowd is not driven by knee-jerk belief that all murderers are innocent or good, but rather by (a) broader policy or philosophical questions that are not raised by any particular case or (b) cases where the validity of the conviction or the justice of the sentence are in question.

I am opposed to the death penalty because I think it doesn't make us safer, which ought to be our primary purpose, and because I suspect we have sometimes executed innocent people, which pisses me off. There are plenty of cases, though, where the death penalty is fair and this would be one of them. I think the death penalty will be gotten rid of one day in this country; that this guy was executed before that happened is not a problem.
5.26.2007 1:49pm
Andrew Okun:
“See what I've done, I'm a cold and callous killer.”

Comer seems to have given up on life at the time of the crime. The typical cold and callous killer would have killed Smith and Jones and maybe Willis and her children, too, and wouldn't have waited to kill the dog. This may count as one of the slowest and most appalling cases of "suicide by cop" ever. He should just have shot himself and left Pritchard and the others out of it.
5.26.2007 1:54pm
Harry Eagar (mail):
'Perhaps it is not funny, but instructive, indicating that the anti-DP crowd is not driven by knee-jerk belief that all murderers are innocent or good, but rather by (a) broader policy or philosophical questions that are not raised by any particular case or (b) cases where the validity of the conviction or the justice of the sentence are in question.'

I suspect it's just that they don't have the courage of their convictions when a case comes along that makes all their arguments look like the emotional nonsense that they are.

And it is not true that a well-regulated death penalty would not make us safer. Since there are many more homicides than there are killers, intervening to remove the killers at the earliest convenient stage of their career would necessarily make us safer.
5.26.2007 2:06pm
Jeremy Jacobs (mail) (www):
"Thorley Winston (mail) (www):
I think Orin may have missed the real story:

Comer brought a picture of his daughter with him to the death chamber and used his last words to say, "Go, Raiders."



This isn’t a tough guy who got the last word, this was a pathetic piece of crap whose own family didn’t want to be there to comfort him in his last minutes on this Earth."

Couldn't agree more.
5.26.2007 6:06pm
Peter Young:
It is funny that the anti-DP crowd is staying away from this one.

Perhaps it is not funny, but instructive, indicating that the anti-DP crowd is not driven by knee-jerk belief that all murderers are innocent or good, but rather by (a) broader policy or philosophical questions that are not raised by any particular case or (b) cases where the validity of the conviction or the justice of the sentence are in question.'

I suspect it's just that they don't have the courage of their convictions when a case comes along that makes all their arguments look like the emotional nonsense that they are.

I'm against the death penalty.

Here's a defendant whose guilt of horrible murders is certain and whose acts are not going to elicit anything but revulsion from anyone who is reasonable. But that proves nothing one way or another in the larger debate about whether or not we should have the death penalty.

Apparently you think it does, in fact that all you need to do is find one such defendant and the debate is over. Death penalty opponents are under no illusions about cold-blooded killers. Apparently you think they are.

You haven't been listening to the other side of the death penalty debate. This case is simply not relevant to most of the reasons I oppose the death penalty, although I appreciate that it's relevant to the reasons you support the death penalty. If all death penalty cases were like this one--if some way could be found of making sure they were all like this one--most of my objections to the death penalty, although not all, would disappear. But they aren't all like this one and the state has no way of ensuring they are.

As for why I would oppose the death penalty even if all cases were like this one, let me just say I believe state imposition of capital punishment is immoral. Does that in any way further the debate or help anyone? No, it doesn't; my moral views are obviously different than yours and it's hardly worth the effort to pontificate about them on this forum. That's why I didn't bother contributing to this thread in any substantive way until you posted your view that death penalty opponents are not commenting here because they lack the courage of their convictions.

It's okay by me if you think my moral views are "emotional nonsense." I think yours are a great deal worse than nonsense, emotional or not.
5.27.2007 5:04am
Andrew Okun:
I suspect it's just that they don't have the courage of their convictions when a case comes along that makes all their arguments look like the emotional nonsense that they are.


So you'd be saying that other cases, the ones where DP opponents show up, don't make their arguments look like emotional nonsense. What kinds of cases would those be?

There are plenty of arguments that are neither emotional nor nonsense and which this case doesn't particularly refute. When balancing factors, execution of someone Comer weighs for the death penalty, but it doesn't end the discussion. The idea that the satisfaction we all derive from ending an asshole like this should end the death penalty debate is itself emotional nonsense. "Every life is precious" and "fry the scumbag" are points at opposite sides of an emotional space.


And it is not true that a well-regulated death penalty would not make us safer.


Aye, and a true Scotsman would never find himself on death row. (Just learned about the whole 'True Scotsman" idea on another VC thread.)

It is hard to refute your point, as there are death penalty systems in place around the world that do make people safer and we can simply define them as well-regulated. Well, they make most people safer, anyway. The whole due process idea takes a bit of a hit when people arrested for crimes over the week-end are beheaded on Monday, and you could argue that due process is an element of being safe. Still, it cuts into the number of criminals.

But it is even harder to refute with that "well-regulated" in there, since we can simply call any application of the death penalty not correlated with increased public safety badly regulated.


Since there are many more homicides than there are killers, intervening to remove the killers at the earliest convenient stage of their career would necessarily make us safer.


This isn't right, at least as an argument for the death penalty.

You say we should remove the killers as early as possible in their careers. What does that have to do with killing them? A sentence of life without parole removes them as much as either a quickly or slowly imposed death sentence. The choice is not between execution and putting them back on the streets. It is between execution and incarceration.

Since they are removed just as effectively, the argument has to come back to other things, like deterrence, resource allocation and the public perception of justice.

Resource allocation is tricky ... you can find arguments that LWOP is 10 times as expensive all to way to 10 times cheaper than execution. Deterrence is tricky, too. Reading the account of Comer's crime, it was clearly utterly unaffected by any perception he might have had about the justice system. Concept of justice? Tricky too. When a guy like this is offed, the perception of justice benefits. When the wrong guy is executed or doubts persist about guilt, when prosecutors grandstand, when ethnicity or wealth are seen to affect the application of the sentence, when public attention is lavished on the few cases where the DP comes up at all and diverted from the much larger number of other cases, the concept of justice can be eroded.

None of these things are simple, but no way does executing one guy "necessarily" make us safer.
5.27.2007 3:41pm
Maureen001 (mail):

Peter Young:

Don't you think that giving the decision of life versus death to someone with an interest in the outcome would violate one of the most fundamental requirements of due process--an impartial decision-maker?


Do you honestly think the death penalty is ever decided unemotionally? Really?

I don't want to argue stubbornly for what was nothing more than a fleeting idea, but to believe that any life-or-death decision can be made sans emotion just isn't reality.
5.27.2007 4:12pm
Harry Eagar (mail):
'It is between execution and incarceration.'

Not if preventing the murder of innocent people is the goal, because murderers in prison keep killing.

The 'nobody dies at all' option isn't available.

And I say 'emotional nonsense' based on decades of observing death penalty opponents, who almost never show the dlightest interest in the murderees.
5.27.2007 4:36pm
mr. meade (mail):
As a prison employee, I have to say that Harry Eagar's comment that "murderers in prison keep killing" is statistically bullshit. There are about 40 or 50 murders in US prisons in a given year. And there are about a million in prison in this country. Find a city of that size with a murder rate that low. (And let's not bring that up in an argument about gun control, please.)

Prison isn't a killing ground. It's infested with morons, reckless and impulsive assholes, puffed-up egos, justifications for this, that, and whatever, rapists, deviants, swindlers, the insane, the mentally-suspect, and all sorts of others, but there just isn't that much killing going on.
5.28.2007 5:57pm
Peter Young:
Do you honestly think the death penalty is ever decided unemotionally? Really?

I don't want to argue stubbornly for what was nothing more than a fleeting idea, but to believe that any life-or-death decision can be made sans emotion just isn't reality.


What on earth are you on about? I suggested that your proposal that "those who suffer the loss of the victim" decide on penalty violates the due process impartial decision-maker guarantee, notwithstanding your assertion that "[t]here would still be the same due process," and you come back with this nonsequitur.
5.28.2007 6:26pm
Waldensian (mail):

As a prison employee, I have to say that Harry Eagar's comment that "murderers in prison keep killing" is statistically bullshit. There are about 40 or 50 murders in US prisons in a given year. And there are about a million in prison in this country. Find a city of that size with a murder rate that low. (And let's not bring that up in an argument about gun control, please.)

Don't confuse the man with the facts.
5.28.2007 8:00pm
Harry Eagar (mail):
And how many executions were there in any recent year?

Fewer than 40 or 50.

That the murder rate in a prison, with armed guards around and inmates under some sort of control for at least part of each day, would be less than in a city of a million people is more obtuse even than the usual antiDP argument.
5.28.2007 8:21pm
Horace Bury (mail):
"On the gripping hand,"

Allah be merciful, they've escaped the quarantine!
5.29.2007 11:30am