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Kant bleg:

"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made." Does anyone know the actual source for this in Kant, and the actual quote in German? A Google search for "krummen Holz" yields a number of different formulations and no actual citation. Does Isaiah Berlin (whose book I don't have on hand) give a citation?

UPDATE: Well, that was quick. Thanks, all!

trotsky (mail):
There was a whole threat about this recently at, ahem, CrookedTimber.com, my second-favoritest pointy-headed blog.
10.3.2006 6:57pm
alkali (mail) (www):
Aus so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden (Akademische Ausgabe, Band 8, page 23). [Source.]
10.3.2006 7:04pm
Philippe:
See here


Aus so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden (Akademische Ausgabe, Band 8, page 23).
10.3.2006 7:04pm
Plato:
Religion Within the Limits of Reason Alone
10.3.2006 7:08pm
Jack Stephens (www):
"Aus so krummen Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz gerades gezimmert werden." Immanuel Kant, from "Idee zu einer allgemeinen Geschichte in weltb├╝rgerlicher Absicht." The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, 3rd ed. (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1979), p. 288. [source]
10.3.2006 7:12pm
alkali (mail) (www):
The name of the particular essay cited is "Idee zu einer allgemeinen Geschichte in weltburgerlicher Absicht" ("Idea for a Universal History from a Cosmopolitan Point of View") (1784).
10.3.2006 7:12pm
David Neylon (mail) (www):
Missed by a few minutes I see:

"Aus so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden"

But I feel Berlin was too transliteral.
10.3.2006 7:24pm
David Neylon (mail) (www):
Actually I meant the opposite of that. Oh nevermind. I'm taking my cold back to bed.
10.3.2006 7:35pm
Neal R.:
Great quote....what does it mean?
10.4.2006 11:14am
k parker (mail):
Kant spell, either, I see.
10.4.2006 7:18pm
Seerak (mail):
Great quote....what does it mean?

It's the original sin fallacy, nothing more.

I'm more interested in the contradiction between the spirit of that quote and Kant's admonishment against treating people "solely " as a means rather than an end in themselves.
10.5.2006 4:24pm
Melchior Sternfels (mail) (www):
I'm not sure I see the contradiction between spirit of the quote and Kant's admonition.

(a) Humans are radically flawed, and hence all human endeavors will be radically flawed (something like the "krummes Holz" proposition).
(b) Humans should not be treated solely as means, but rather as ends in themselves.

Certainly, there is no logical contradiction between (a) and (b). Perhaps you mean that (a) together with one or more as yet unspecified propositions contradicts (b). If that's what you mean, what further propositions do you have in mind?
10.6.2006 12:15pm