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ANOTHER MS WORD QUESTION: ADJUSTING BOTTOM MARGINS WITH FOOTNOTES.--

OK, Eugene got help with an MS Word problem, so I thought I'd ask for help on an MS Word question. I am having problems with pages on which there are footnotes. Only a few pages in this manuscript have footnotes, but for some reason, the bottom margins (white space below text and footnotes) on pages with footnotes are larger than on other pages. Any ideas on how to get more text on pages with footnotes, so the pages go down to the regular bottom margins?

Comments are on.

UPDATE: I finally got an answer. Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to give me advice, and especially to Beau, who solved my problem.

Comments are now off.

Related Posts (on one page):

  1. Word v. WordPerfect:
  2. I Hate MicroSoft Word:
  3. ANOTHER MS WORD QUESTION: ADJUSTING BOTTOM MARGINS WITH FOOTNOTES.--
Julie:
It might be the footer. I would check the footer dimensions under Page Setup (under "File").

It also sometimes helps to show the formatting marks—if something else is wrong, that might be a way to find out.
5.5.2005 12:46pm
The Editors, AFJ (mail) (www):
The space between the footnote and the bottom of the page is set by selecting File > Page Setup > Layout tab.

On the Layout tab, there's a setting for Headers and Footers, From Edge. That will determine the distance between the footer and the bottom of the page. The settings on the Margin tab will determine the distance between the body text and the bottom of the page.
5.5.2005 12:55pm
Jim Lindgren (mail):
Thanks for the suggestions. The footers are the same on all pages, so that's not it.

Jim
5.5.2005 1:06pm
Jim Lindgren (mail):
My last note was to Julie. I'm going to try the AFJ suggestions now.

Jim
5.5.2005 1:08pm
Jim Lindgren (mail):
AFJ Editors:

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Your suggestion is what I tried myself before. In page setup, headers and footers are set at 0.7. Margins are set at 1.25 all around. I have a lot of internal sections for different running heads, so in response to your post, I just reset the page margins at 1.25 and header/footer margins at 0.7 for the entire document.

The problem persists.

Thanks again,

Jim
5.5.2005 1:19pm
vepxistqaosani (mail) (www):
Jim,

I work for a major publisher; one of my tasks has been to wrestle acceptable behavior out of Word. Basically, it can't be done: Word is not a page-layout program (like Quark) or a page-description language (like Postscript) or (my own favorite) a Turing-complete programming language (like TeX).

Our solutions are two: (1) lower our standards to what Word is capable of; (2) save as RTF and convert via Perl or Python scripts into TeX.

However, if you insist on beating your head against the wall, try the Word MVPs. They're the most knowledgable Word (if also, naturally, the most frustrated) mavens on the planet.

Regards!
5.5.2005 1:36pm
Guest:
Make sure your footnote Format | Paragraph | Spacing-After is set to 0". Check for the same in your Style for footnotes.
5.5.2005 1:44pm
Dave:
right-click on a footnote
choose "note options"
in the dropdown box under location,
try "Below text" instead of "bottom of page"

"Below text" still puts the footnote on the bottom of the page
but there seems to be less wasted space
5.5.2005 1:46pm
wch:
The MVP's for all MS Office programs can be reached using the following link
www.microsoft.com /office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx#2 the space between .com and / should be closed
5.5.2005 1:52pm
jon (mail) (www):
Jim,

I think I might know the problem; I've had the same issue with the footnotes causing an entire page to be blank save a few lines at the top. I think what has happened here is that there has been a page break entered by WORD (it does it sometimes for some reason) causing the text to be forced to the next page.

To see if it is a page break, go to "Normal" rather than "Print Layout" and you should see a line there saying "page break". Delete the line.
5.5.2005 2:09pm
The Editors, AFJ (mail) (www):
Jim, the footnoate setting and the margin setting are independent of each other. They don't add together or anything like that.

If you want 1.25" of empty space at the bottom of every page, whether you have a footnote or not, set the footer > from Edge setting to 1.25" and the margin setting to 1.25".

If you want 0.7" of space at the bottom of every page, then set the margin and footer settings both to 0.7"
5.5.2005 2:35pm
Alan Gunn (mail):
I, too, have had terrible problems, mostly unsolvable, with Word. The sad thing is that WordPerfect, which is dying of neglect, is very much better. I've done several superb camera-ready manuscripts with WordPerfect.
5.5.2005 2:55pm
Moe:
Check your "widow" and "orpahn" settings. That will solve your problem.
5.5.2005 2:56pm
Moe:
Sorry. "Orphan."
5.5.2005 2:58pm
William Spieler (mail) (www):
Unfortunately, Word's support of footnotes is sorely lacking, as repeatedly noted by people preparing legal publications.
5.5.2005 3:10pm
Omnibus Driver (mail) (www):
Go to the paragraph at the top of that page and left click, then right click with your mouse. Click on "paragraph", the "line and page break" tab, and make sure "keep with next" is turned off. That can cause all sorts of headaches.

(Conversely, if you need to keep a heading with the paragraph that follows from breaking without forcing a page break, make sure "keep with next is" is turned on.
5.5.2005 3:42pm
eric:
If you're still frustrated, here's another potential fix. Set the paragraph spacing (e.g., single, double, at least, exactly) for the text (not the footnotes) to exactly 14 pt (single space) or exactly 28 pt. (double space). I have found this forces footnotes to appear on the same page as the note where Word would otherwise shuttle it to the following page. I know it seems like a ludicrous fix for your issue, but it's also a ludicrous way to force a footnote to appear on the same page as the actual note. It might just help.
5.5.2005 4:05pm
Bruno (mail):
Jack Lyon, (editorium.com) knows everything about MS Word:

mailto:help@editorium.com

He may be able to help.
5.5.2005 4:10pm
GCW (mail):
Check out OpenOffice.org. Free and easy.
5.5.2005 5:46pm
Pat Ca (mail) (www):
Okay, I edit master's theses (all usually in Word) so this comes up a lot. If Word detects the note will not fit on the page, it goes to the next page to start it. You could always switch to endnotes or parentheticals, simply because they're freaking easier to type!

5.5.2005 10:15pm
Pat Ca (mail) (www):
It left off the link to fix it. Here it is.

how to fix footnotes

and, yes, all the attorneys I know use WordPerfect. Where can I get a free copy?
5.5.2005 10:21pm
MWB (mail):
WordPerfect nearly gave me ulcers way back when. I tried Word 4 and could produce anything I wanted quickly and easily. Word for Windows and Word 95 were both good, but I noticed Word 95 ran slower than Word for Windows because it was trying to read your mind and now I have stayed with Word 97 instead of upgrading because it's trying even harder to be Miss Cleo. I figure Word 2002 (or are we on Word 2005?) will try to clean up your language if you type expletives. I always get into that who-knows-how-it-happens formatting change that takes a perfectly harmless few lines and decides you want an outline, complete with font changes! GAD!!! How do you get rid of that?

And WordPerfect has come with a couple of computers I bought, but I didn't even try to use it, remembering the old days and that stinko Lotus spreadsheet that comes with it. (Don't tell me it has improved too?) Maybe I'm going to pull out the WordPerfect disks.
5.6.2005 12:27am
Jim Lindgren (mail):
Thanks to everyone who made suggestions.

None of the suggestions work, including setting spacing exactly. The problem is not that a footnote doesn't appear on the right page. It's that not enough text is on the page and the footnote is not being printed at the bottom of the page, even though that option is selected. Nor does editing the footnote separator help, nor is the problem in the footer.

The ONLY thing that works is to eliminate the footnote and paste a line and what was in the footnote as smaller text at the bottom of the page.

What a program!
5.6.2005 2:53am
J (mail):
Here is the easy 2-step fix:

1. From the File menu, select Quit
2. From the Windows Start menu select Shut Down
3. From the Yellow Pages, select Apple Store
5.6.2005 8:51am
Beau Sterling (mail):
This is a long shot, but may be worth a try. If you have asked Word to insert a footnote continuation notice, Word will put the same extra space needed to print the notice on the bottom of every page with a footnote—even where there is no continuation notice.

The fix: If you are using a footnote continuation message, select Normal from the View pull-down menu, then Footnotes from the View pull-down menu, then Footnote Continuation Notice from the Footnotes pull-down menu in the footnote screen. Check to see if there are any extra returns and delete them. You can also play with the line spacing and the paragraph formatting (i.e., again making sure that Spacing…After is set to "0" and the line spacing is "Single" or exactly 12 or 14 or whatever your single spacing line height is.

(If you insist on using the footnote continuation message, you may have to set Spacing before to something other than zero to keep the message from bumping up against your footnotes, especially if your Footnote Text style is set at Space…After "0" as suggested by another reader.)
5.6.2005 10:08am
Honest Abe (mail):
WordPerfect. Where can I get a free copy?

Try e-bay. I needed a wordstar filter and bought WP 11 for about ten dollars (including shipping) in order to get the filter (WordXP dropped a lot of filters).

BTW, WordXP is a lot better than prior words, especially for cut and paste work (it allows you format options on cut and past that are very useful if you are trying to get rid of the html codes, etc.).

Still, I still pine for when our local federal judges required things in WordPerfect format. PDFs just aren't the same (larger, uglier, and they won't let us use open office).

One thing that sometimes fixes Word is to work in .rtf files instead of .doc files. This both limits features and solves a lot of autoformat glitches. You might want to try that.
5.6.2005 12:17pm
The Editors, AFJ (mail) (www):
It's working for us, it must be you. :)
5.6.2005 12:52pm
Jim Lindgren (mail):
Beau:

That did it. You fixed it.

Somehow there were extra spaces in the footnote continuation notice, which we weren't consciously using.
I had previously checked the footnote separators in the same menu and that wasn't it, but the "footnote continuation notice" is it.

I guess MS Word sometimes can be made to work, if the distributed intelligence of the internet can be brought to bear.

Thanks, Beau, and thanks to everyone else who made suggestions.
5.6.2005 1:28pm